Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nazirull Safry Paijo, Nov 25, 2013.
Ok, I'll bite. What is RealFeel?
RealFeel was a FFB mod for rFactor1. It took forces calculated from the steering geometry and fed those to the wheel directly. It also make individual profiles for each car and you could adjust settings on the fly. See the FFB link in my signature.
I don't know real feel. I don't used rf1 and i'm talking about rf2. I don't know if it makes a difference but i'm cooling the caseless wheel's motor with a fan directly mounted on top of it. It helps to keep constance and it never get's more than lukewarm, before i couldn't touch it. After balancing fundamental forces, i balance the car's setup to my like. I don't mind or care about the fastest, i like to feel the cars soul.
Niels does great physics for sure but the improved FFB feel that people praise so much in GSC mostly comes from the use of RealFeel. RealFeel is a VERY simplistic plugin for rF1 where it takes the steering arm forces which are in NM and then looks at the MaxForce that you have set in your RealFeelPlugin.ini (which is also set in NM) and then does this: <MaxForce>/<StearingArmForce>=<PersentageOfForceToSendToWheel>. There is a little smoothing in there too if you want to use it. You have to get the MoTeC plugin and do several CLEAN laps to find the MaxForce for the given car and then plug that number into your INI file. If you set the MaxForce in the INI file too low you get stronger forces but loss fidelity. Same goes for rF2. People are always talking about jacking there FFB over 1.0 in rF2 but all that does is create clipping and hides the small details.
If you do use RealFeel with rF1 it is best to edit your Controller.ini to totally disable the original FFB. RealFeel turns rF1 into an entirely different sim.
Understand, i left the scene after GTR2, i did a FFB UI for in the past, history. In my opinion both FFB technic's are good AC and rf2, it is just about the balance i think but atm i prefer rf2's.
Real feel is supposed to be included with GSC2013 right? I bought it today, well I can't say I think it feels the same as rF2, maybe that's real road or something. Which is a good thing, I can really feel the tyre wear and the beauty of a changing track in rF2, that being said guys if you have not got GSC2013 you seriously need to get it, I parted with my cash after trying the carts, it's worth it for that alone, amazing fun. I think I will be splitting my time from now on. Try it for one hour for free, I bet you buy it.
Yes sir, that's very clear, but also clearly not what was written on steam the day AC went live. Thanks anyway.
Here's another quote from the steam page, though still not the not the one I read on release day:
"Assetto Corsa is a next-generation driving simulator for Windows PC which reproduces real-world circuits, as well as road and racing cars. The game includes a single player career,special events and allows the player to create and customize offline competitions and multiplayer races to challenge other players."
I guess it will turn into something worth owning eventually.
Caster is relative, what matters is the mechanical trail. You can have mechanical trail with 0 caster.
Realfeel was a plugin that improved the FFB in rF1, I think. It is used in GSC. rFactor 2 has Real Road, which means the track surfaces changes over time.
I'm not going to go back and forward about this but I bought it the minute it came on Steam and it always had that list at the bottom of the screen with exactly what features were included
Yes RealFeel is included in GSC. I am not saying both titles will feel the same. I am just saying they both handle FFB the same way. The FFB is dictated by steering arm forces. Steering arm forces are dictated by suspension geometry, tire model and track surface. The tire model in rF2 is entirely different and the track surface is dynamic due to RealRoad. But the biggest difference in FFB feel between rF1 with RealFeel (including GSC) and rF2 is the tire model.
afaik, gsc 2012 used a mix of realfeel and some leobodnar plugin parameters
Yes Noel was saying they are the same, rF2 and GSC2013 with regards to ffb. I believe it and it just makes rF2 real road and tyres seem all the more amazing, how different it can make the same ffb feel. If rF2 could somehow get the same low speed feeling as GSC2013 it would be pretty much sorted for handling characteristics. I imagine a sort of "blending in" of the real road and tyres data with speed, at the moment that's the way rF2 seems to me, the slower you go the worse the feeling, and the harder it is to understand whats going on regarding slip and wheelspin. It could all be related to fps performance though, you really need a minimum of 80 (more much more would be preferable) for slow sharp turns, as this is what makes the background images move the fastest. I think ISI need to increase this fps limit from 60. GSC2013 goes higher, AC goes higher, both of those feel very fluid even through slow hairpins. Anyway I'm sure the new build later today will address all this......
Yes something with fps it has to do for sure. I tested so many thing's with a single screen and triple's forth and back but the best this sim feels above 90 fps.
I use with triple's on 4800x900 a setup, generating a single car performance above 100 fps on track, as example Loch Drummond starting in the box with 150fps. It is a absolute different feeling to something around 50-60fps, even the FFB changes with it and sync modes leaving to a greater input lag for me. I have no sync in use and i think this is the min performance recommend for this sim. It needs a atomic pc but as long as i have a great single car performance i have the chance to feel this great things. The low speed info is much greater as well but some better tractions info on low speed for ISI cars could help, at least some rubber deformation under accel longitidunal could do the trick, slip stick longitidunal in general might be usefull for.
Although this thread is about AC, after many suggestions here i gave a try to GSC 2013.....well thank guys who suggested to give it a try.....best sim out of the box. Incredible that they have done an amazing job with such "limited" engine.
Update two is on the go...
There is no 60 FPS limit in RF2, you must be using vsync, which on top of the frame limit also adds lag, you should disable it and aim for no less than 90 fps (except start of race which is probably unavoidable).
Do you mean same low speed feeling as GSC in terms of physics? Or actual "feel"?
Personally, in terms of actual "feel" (pure physics aside), I have a terrible time getting any tyre feeling out of GSC 2012 and FTruck 2013 unless I mix in RF1 FFB with the standard real feel FFB, and adjust values for both.
The standard FFB in GSC 2012 and FTruck 2013 is alive to me in the sense that I can feel it load up as I turn more, I get the whole "wheel auto-corrects itself on oversteer" thing, and it moves around from track iregularities (feels awesome! Alive!), in that sense it feels very nice and natural, BUT......
......then I reach a certain point in my laptimes where the wheel isn't giving me any useful info (in it's standard default config) about tyre lock up, different sensations regarding different slip rates of the tyres, front tyre scrub, slip, grip, slip, re-grip, etc. It's completely numb & dead to me in that regard. That is with a T500RS wheel and a Fanatec CSR (non-Elite) wheel. The in-game presets barely feel any different either, its just all the same generic, centering spring feel, with hardly any feeling of the tyres and chassis underneath you. However, once I add in regular RF1 FFB and mess with the values of it then I can get the wheel to start "talking" to me throughout the different cornering phases, and I can then push that much more without making mistakes while being more consistent, and also being able to identify much easier not only what the car wants in terms of my driving technique, but with regards to car setup as well.
Notice how I said GSC 2012, not 2013. GSC 2013, in stock out of the box configuration, seems to relay more info to me about actual car slip/grip and tyre forces, than GSC 2012 & FTruck 2013. I still need to mix in regular RF1 FFB with the default Realfeel, and play around with the values (and use between "Medium" and "Full" in-game FFB, rather than RealFeel recommended "Low" ), but it's not as desperately vital to do so, for me, as it was in 2012 (and FTruck 2013), those 2 were just absolutely terrible for me in stock default form, just awfull.
I mean I can lap just fine regardless of FFB, UP UNTIL A CERTAIN POINT, and then, as in real life, I need "talking" from the car, I need the vital minute information coming back to me so I can know where the tyres/car are capable of just tiny amounts more, which over a lap can really add up to even over half a second, maybe a full second. At this point the audio & visual cues are just too generic, you really need it in the FFB to feel it properly so that you can really play around with the car in that "limit zone" without making a big mistake, but without under driving either. It's all about keeping the car within a few percent (either lower or under) of that limit zone.
I mean the 60 fps limit where it begins to reduce graphics to keep the fps to at least 60fps..... they need to make that higher so you can make the minimum fps you see say 85. No I don't run with vsync on.
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