So hows AC for you?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nazirull Safry Paijo, Nov 25, 2013.

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  1. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    Actually I think it is the other way around. rF1 with RealFeel and rF2 deliver raw rack forces to the wheel whereas AC does some sort of canned stuff like rF1 (without RealFeel) did. In AC they are only delivering the forces they think you should feel. In RealLife you get raw rack forces but they are severely dampened by the power steering, linkage, rack bushings, ect ect. rF2 can sort of simulate some dampening via the smoothing levels and they (ISI devs) could probably add a little more dampening if they wanted, to further simulate power steering. But as you said, we lack feedback in other areas (gforces) so any extra data is welcome.
     
  2. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    Direct
     
  3. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    In a real car the front wheels will always turn into a slide (even before it is too late) but your hands fight this tendency due to the extreme power steering assist. If you own a car with a dedicated PS belt, take it off one day and go for a spin. You will feel a lot more. Get the car sideways and you will feel the wheel try to turn into the slide. Lock the front wheels or generate a ton of understeer and you will feel the wheel get limp.

    rF2 isn't faking anything, it just isn't dampening any of the forces like a real car does.
     
  4. JorgeANeto

    JorgeANeto Registered

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    Just for curiosity, do you have access to the FFB coding to do such assertion? I'm asking because I just feel several FFB forces which has nothing to do with the track itself, since I made the track by myself and there's no bump at all to produce those forces.

    I like RF2 FFB but I fell a lot of forces that I can't say where they're coming from, honestly.
     
  5. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    It appears that many people never had the chance to drive those tuna cans called cars that were around 20 or 30 years ago. If you ever used a car with no powersteering, no servo brakes, even with just 50 hp, you would know that the steering wheel give you a LOT of feedback, from pavement condition, tire pressure, aquaplaning, slipping, gripping,sliding, forward/backward weight transfer and so on. Wheel will try to turn on itself even on show if you try to make it oversteer, and wheel turn very light when both front wheels have no grip in your tipical understeer situation.
     
  6. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    Very true... how many times do people say, "I lost the rear, lets just let go of the wheel", to actually know what the wheel would do. The wheel stay in place solely because your hands are keeping it in place. All though very light, the forces are there.

    I highly recommend people take their PS belt off and report back.
     
  7. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    Exactly, and on older non-PS cars they typically ran much higher gear ratios in the rack which reduces the load you feel in your hands. If you take a modern car with a quick ratio and then take the belt off, the forces are even more pronounced than on older non-PS cars.
     
  8. kaptainkremmen

    kaptainkremmen Registered

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    A new pair of tyres on the front felt like power steering :)
     
  9. JorgeANeto

    JorgeANeto Registered

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    And about this Noel, no answer? You say as you were a ISI code writer.
     
  10. Murtaya

    Murtaya Registered

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    My escort Mk1, then my opel manta ...ah fond memories. Yes you got a lot of feedback with no powersteering, guy I knew liked to drape his wrist effeminately through the wheel in his capri. Clipped a kerb one day at very low speed, broke his wrist. I remember my first power steering, I hated it, I had been so used to accelerating out of corners, let the wheel slip through my hands as the car naturally straightened up, now you had to steer in those situations, it took some of the joy away. Then of course I came to park and I understood why it was good.
     
  11. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Ive done various track days ( mainly at silverstone which is 25minutes from my house )

    When pushing the car one is seriously engaged & concentrating (real world )

    I find this also in certain other sims ( mainly in iracing & rf2 )

    But sadly at the moment I'm finding AC way to easy to the point my mind wonders, even when pushing right on the edge (after over 50hrs in AC since launch), to grippy? This may be the reason, what ever the reason I hope updates change things

    P.s do I feel a good sim has to be hard ? Yes I do, because flying around Stowe at up to 150mph in a real car is also hard lol

    ( gosh a serious post ! )
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2013
  12. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    You are right. Watch this Videos and you can see what happens to the wheel while oversteering

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25-63ReD7ow

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6BfQhnbZ0Y
     
  13. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    Nice find Andregee. I tried to dig up some drifting videos and most of them sort of gave the illusion that the driver was flinging the wheel and I didn't even want to get into that argument because slinging isn't necessary. In these videos you can clearly see there is no slinging involved.

    I am not knowledgeable on building a car for drifting but I suspect that removing power steering is the first thing on the list.
     
  14. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Anybody experienced this with rf2 ?
     
  15. ZeosPantera

    ZeosPantera Registered

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    I wonder if they add massive amounts of negative caster to the front as well to up the forces on the wheel. Near 0 caster wouldn't do anything to the steering wheel (like what F1 cars have) Massive positive caster would make it extremely difficult to straiten the wheel and massive negative caster would be like having FFB reversed where the steering is always trying to pull into a turn.
     
  16. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    I get that with rf2 as well but the steering wheels are not fast enough, to much delay and the rf2 cars are all snap back. The T500RS is than on it's limit but with the Mazda it works.
     
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  17. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    Yes but you can't totally let go of a FFB wheel or it will oscillate out of control so it makes it a little hard to fully test.

    Niels has some good videos of him drifting in rF1 (with RealFeel) where you can see the wheel spinning in his hands as the car changes directions. rF2's FFB is almost identical to RealFeel.
     
  18. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    Tires are naturally going to rotate to the direction of a slide. The camber/caster will influence it (just as it does in rF1/w RealFeel and rF2) but it would rotate regardless.
     
  19. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    Yeah the wheels aren't going to accelerate as fast as in those real life videos. But the engine is trying to get the wheel there.
     
  20. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    I know a vid where he is drifting nicely but i can do that with rf2 as well but only with the Mazda atm and not constantly because i lack some skills for. I can let go the wheel on straight and have no oscillation but great overall response. The car is absolutly great to controle with it. I know people don't take serious what i said about but it is the truth. I have the best setup i ever had in any sim with a FFB wheel.
     
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