Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nazirull Safry Paijo, Nov 25, 2013.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that games bought via Steam are always non-refundable?
AC are doing some things right. (I do agree their behavior on their forum is very sketch.)
"Remember this poll doesn’t include those brands that are already licensed in Assetto Corsa (please find the current list here), as well as the brands that cannot be licensed in Assetto Corsa due to exclusive agreements with other videogames or companies..."
I've been with rF2 since build 85 and I haven't seen something like this from ISI. I did start a track poll/thread once, no official feedback was given although we did have almost 200 votes. The vehicle selection in rF2 is excellent (and growing!) and that speaks highly of the good work Tim and crew are doing. However, would be nice to see the community more involved with licensing when possible via an official ISI poll.
BTW - My hand written list to Santa included the Speed8. Teaser shots would suffice!
(Drift mode added with latest build)
I'd say that's really clear.
- FREE PRACTICE
- TIME ATTACK
- 12 SPECIAL EVENTS
- DRIFT MODE
And Steam usually gives you one refund on your account so if you haven't used it yet, I guess you can. Alltho I don't know if it also applies to early acces games.
Once I'm looking for those "micro-tenths" and micro-slips, as I'm trying to really, really extract as much potential as I can from the car, I need to feel the tyres' grip, what the 4 corners of the car are doing. That obvious sign from the FFB telling you things like "rear right tyre just locked for a split second" or "front left is just about reaching peak slip" or "fronts are on the edge of lockup, but as long as you don't add any steering or a percent more braking then u'll be ok as they aren't quite locked yet and are just on that threshold slip edge", when I need all these tiny minuscule pieces of information to look for "micro-tenths" and to feel how/why/where I get micro-slides (before they turn into big obvious oversteer/understeer slides) I need the FFB constantly relaying this info to me.
These vital peices of info are what can really help you find limits through different phases of the corner. It'll also help you not loose as much time when you go past grip limits because you won't go past them as much, or as often, because u are getting so much grip/tyre info relayed back to and u use this to understand the 4 corners of the car and their minute states of grip/slip.
All this tyre grip/slip info is why I can find and hold the limits, and successfully keep improving my laptimes ever so slightly, and find out little things the car needs/wants not only in terms of setup but driving technique as well, without constantly going off track/spinning, in certain sims so well. It's the reason why I love RF1 and it's based products (only when setup perfectly though, which is annoying and cumbersome AS HELL). It's the reason why I love and can drive GT Legends so good (the stock FFB profiles in GTL are exactly this type of FFB I prefer), and it's the reason I can never play with 100% only real feel, I always need to drop it down to 60-80% and make sure the regular RF1 FFB is setup to give me obvious signs of grip, and then also make sure the in-game FFB is set to either "Full", "High" or at the lowest "Medium", never "Low".
Then, once you go way beyond the limit and you do a big slide, then I would probably prefer the other type of FFB, the 100% steering arm forces only/100% RealFeel only forces, as their springy-ness and "autocorrection of oversteer" really helps save the slide/stay in tune with the slide a lot better. This style FFB also is more natural and "normal" feeling to a real life wheel, but I'm much more concerned with the tiny micro-tenths and micro-slip/grip of the 4 tyres which are so vital to finding/holding the limits, not only in sims, but real life as well.
So in the end, do you want FFB that relays the vital info to you that you so desperately need to find and hold a racing car at it's precise limits, and allows you to feel changes in tyre grip/slip that you would never be able to "feel" from just audio/visual cues alone (option 1)? Or do you want a more natural feeling, steering arm/rack forces only FFB, which at first may feel better, and definitely helps you save big slides and big moments better, but Is a lot more bland (to me at least) regarding the state of micro-grip/slip of the tyres once you really start to get on top of the car (option 2)?
My choice can be either. Personally I feel option 2 is much better for newcomers who need to feel the natural weight and rotation of the car, the familiarity of real life steering, the way it loads up as more lock is applied, etc. Then once they really start improving and getting a handle of things, how the throttle/brake/steering inputs affect car balance/grip etc. how to push & be fast without touching setup, ways to get more time out of the car regardless of how much you dislike the setup, etc. etc. Once someone gets to that point, then I feel they can rely on their own experience & intuition combined with the audio and visual cues as well rather than needing the natural feel of FFB option 2. This then allows them to transition over to FFB option 1, which I believe allows for faster laptimes and consistency when pushing hard, as understanding and feeling all the micro-slips of the 4 tyres throughout the entire cornering phase will benefit them much more and is what you are "listening to" much more in real life as well (albeit it doesn't come so much through the wheel, but get's relayed to your brain regardless).
After years of sims, I am a firm believer that 100% steering arm/rack only forces will only bring you so far with regards to pure laptimes (and consistency when doing those laptimes, and looking for more time) because once you reach a certain point then this FFB philosophy becomes an artificial block, a "wall", on your laptimes as it's just not giving you the info you need to improve further, again though, only ONCE YOU RACH A CERTAIN POINT. Until that point, or if you're mostly concerned with big rear powersliding/drifting, the 100% steering arm/rack forces will probably suit most people better. The problem is that many people don't realize that once they reach a certain point of the car's laptimes/limits that changing over to the FFB option 1 philosophy will yield them greater results....IF they can learn to understand it's "language", and accept the fact that it may feel less natural and help less with big oversteer.
rfactor2 ffb ???? lol .................formula isi , formula renault 3.5 and formula 2 ffb=0 ............ logitech g25
"Personally I feel option 2 is much better for newcomers who need to feel the natural weight and rotation of the car, the familiarity of real life steering, the way it loads up as more lock is applied, etc."
Newcomers? I bought my first driving wheel in the early nineties for GP2 or 3.
The thing is... please don't forget that there are people which don't feel the need to race competitive online, but that doesn't mean they are new to the game. Yeah I know, crazy idea, but they exist. Therefore I take also always a long and hard look on the AI.
I know it's great fun racing online, but I work at sometimes unnatural times... it was never feasable for me to play sims like this. I play these games for the pure fun an sensation of driving different cars that I don't have the chance to drive in real life. This is what I want out of a sim about cars.
"Once someone gets to that point, then I feel they can rely on their own experience & intuition combined with the audio and visual cues as well rather than needing the natural feel of FFB option 2"
But why should I feel the need for Option 1 ever?
See.. I learned the "rules" of rfactor 1 and today these rules are natural to me and when I play Mods with great feedback or GSC it is fun for me, too, but I think it works mostly because I speak this language fluently after all this time. But I didn't have much choice back then. Rfactor 1 was and is the sim with the biggest choice of mods. It made some dreams come true for me.
"IF they can learn to understand it's "language", and accept the fact that it may feel less natural and help less with big oversteer. "
It's exactly the thing I dislike... I don't want to learn another language when I play a game that simulates cars. Then it is another game. One which I don't like as much. Then it is no better than Dirt or Grid, which also have their own rules, which don't compare to reality. The difference is only: It's more difficult to learn the language, but it's arbitrary nonetheless.
I see where you come from and I don't have a problem with that. In fact I very much like games which are difficult and which have a great payoff (I come from an age where Sims had manuals big as telephone books), but right now I don't have a choice ingame rfactor 2 between Option 1 or 2. It's either this or that game.
To have ISIs Real Road and Tire Technology in Assetto Corsa...or rfactor 2 with the "car feeling" from AV... woah, the mind boggles. It would be a match made in heaven.
A good example is losing your tail end in a turn. In a real car your steering wheel doesn't FEEL different until it is WAY too late and you have swung out wide enough to alter the force/geometry on the front tires/suspension. So one of the "fake" forces is a slight reversal/lessening of steering FFB force as the rear tires lose lateral grip telling you, you are on the edge. The visual cockpit movement can help you detect this as well but FFB and touch is usually the way it translates.
No, they just want you to believe it so that you abandon your rights as a consumer. Contrary to popular belief, Valve is a pretty scummy company. I buy from GMG or GG or elsewhere if I game has to be DLed in Steam.
I've lived on steam for over 8 years. They are fine. They offer an amazing service with little to no technical problems on the consumer end. Whatever happens on the developer end I am sure is easily overlooked once 500,000 copies of your game a sold.
I love how the Steamers always dismiss other people's problems.
Yes and exactly this i called pendulum effect in any context. If this is overdone, it leads to swung the body by ffb itself just by turning the wheel and leaves the impresion on one to catapulting rear weight by steering, also disorted the perception of the cars COG, which is an unnatural feeling.
Good explanation of things by Spinelli previously.
Really need to check this in my car, never paid attention. But all logic in the world tells me you should feel it in the wheel too.
I mean what actually happens when you approach a right hand corner and you get over steer is your front wheel angle changes so no idea why you shouldn't feel that in the wheel at all or to late. I guess it depends also on the front suspension how much you fell it tho. Of course in game you are only focused on the wheel as it's your info source number one but that doesn't say that one has to exclude the other IRL right?
But honestly that explanation sounds strange to me. Really have to check that.
I have actually never thought about how that stuff works in game so .........
Edit: Most of the time when you get over steer IRL you immediately try to point your front wheels in to direction you want to drive so I guess to test this the best solution would be to induce a spin/oversteer and do not correct it and check what you feel in the wheel, I guess.
Of course you should feel something when oversteering, the wheels will try to countersteer and you will feel this on the steering.
Yes you do but maybe not exact like in the sim. If you do not have fully seat shell and six point belts try to support your body weight with one arm while cornering, that your steering arm can direct use the power only to steer. You would not believe what all you can feel and how different as usually.
If you put a device to measure the forces coming through your REAL steering wheel when losing the back end it would be infinitesimally smaller then you think. Only after the car cocks the backend out far enough to affect the front wheels and angles and geometry will anything be felt in a REAL steering wheel. What you react to is the feeling in your inner ear of twisting/falling/the slight lateral movement taking place behind you. Not what you feel in the wheel.
Since most of us don't have a rig with the capability of moving our asses left and right as we swing around we have to put the forces somewhere else. That could be in our virtual cockpit view (Exaggerate Yaw) or in our FFB. We need it to be there but the degree it occurs is what separates one sim from another.
I got you there but still I am not sure hence those words always appear "might be, would be, think".
I am just like that sorry. Gonna try it out my self as often as needed to get an answer.
Nowhere. It has been pointed out and that's enough - no need to discuss it.
I'm not sure if it's the right way. Many people choose without any consideration often just falling for the latest thing.
looks like the gp layout of Silverstone is out tomorrow...queue comparisons to rf2s version!
100% useless fanboy "review", since the absurd statement about performance to the "foolish" thing (don't you fell fool for paying twice for a 4 years beta stage product?)... this post explains very well why is a waste of time to read those evaluations. I keep reading just for laugh.
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