So hows AC for you?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nazirull Safry Paijo, Nov 25, 2013.

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  1. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    That's not my point. Check AC posts vs rF2 posts on iR forums. The ratio is maybe 10:1.

    Btw, there are tons of people who came to iRacing via GT5 and Forza. And a lot of people are simply new in simracing, as ZeosPantera said.
     
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  2. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Opps sorry wrong thread (-;

    -thanks Steve

    P.s I'm not trying to start an argument lol
     
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  3. PRC Steve

    PRC Steve Registered

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    AC thread Adrian ^^^^ :)
     
  4. samuelw

    samuelw Registered

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    "Natural" is the word AC proponents have used repeatedly in praise. That as used by AC proponents the word does not sense was my point.
    Sw
     
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  5. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    I was talking about people specifically came from other sims I had mentioned, not rookies, not console users.
     
  6. I3bullets

    I3bullets Registered

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    How AC is for me?
    Just today I got into the Zonda R, a new car for me. Never driven it before. I chose Mugello, which I've last driven on in Forza 4 so I roughly knew the layout. Using the "pro" settings I managed to do the first lap without trouble, then the next and the next... eight mostly automatic laps later I got bored and shut AC down. I immediately fired up rF2 for a couple of training laps for the cup we will do soon. So the car was well known to me as was the track. I didn't use any AI so it basically was a hotlapping session. The first lap I crashed. I laughed at my stupidity since the tires were cold and I should've known better. The second lap I missed a braking point but managed to stay on track. Twenty laps later I found myself still enjoying the drive, still looking for a "better" line than the lap before, frowning at "slower" sectors, smiling at faster ones, looking for "just a bit more" grip on my steadily wearing tires - basically having a blast.
    That's how AC is for me.
     
  7. PRC Steve

    PRC Steve Registered

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    This is exactly how I feel. Not just with AC but all other titles I own or have owned/tried.
     
  8. samuelw

    samuelw Registered

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    yeah :rolleyes:
    sw
     
  9. Frankysco

    Frankysco Registered

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    +1
     
  10. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Real life Formula Abarth driver
    my experience with the car doesnt match that at all either.

    You can clearly see this on the comparison video Esteve posted before.
     
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  11. lamo

    lamo Registered

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    +1

    Got AC today and did plenty of laps. Now I wish I had spent the money on something else. Just doesn`t feel right.
    RF2 is a copletely different and by far more interesting world.

    No refunds on steam for european countries, is that right? Does anyone know?
     
  12. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    If you 2 want something to do when you not in rF2 I seriously recommend you give Formula Truck a go. ;)
     
  13. Murtaya

    Murtaya Registered

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    For me

    The UI easy to understand and use. The DX11 graphics a real treat. Fluidity of the graphics - lovely. Utilization of hardware - excellent. Physics - dull and wrong. FFB good in places like brake lock up, but mostly really really bad. I would say it's Gran turismo and Forza, but for the pc. It isn't a simulator basically at this point (being a bit kind). What I learned from it is, I would like ISI to increase the minimum frame cap from 60 to 85 or more.
    The other thing I learned from it (if it is a simulator) is that taking a KTM Xbow to a track is the most boring and safe thing you could ever do.
     
  14. Empty Box

    Empty Box Registered

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    Agreed, but I don't think it's wrong on simple power output (especially for a road car) which isn't difficult to find, it isn't difficult to get "right". I highly doubt that the power output itself is wrong. However...

    ...at the same time I'll non hesitantly guess that the throttle has a curved response to it. I can get the same effect here by lowering the throttle sensitivity. For example, the 2-Eleven doesn't feel "wrong", but it does feel like I have to get to 90% throttle to have anything happen. It's not a deadzone, it's just not responsive at all outside that last 10% travel range which makes it FEEL like there is a lack of power, a lack of power on oversteer because afterall, I'm giving it 90% throttle, it should be putting out a very large part of it's power at that point. When in reality it's just getting going at that point.

    That same feeling persists in any car in AC. Maintenance throttle is waaaaaaaaay far down on the pedal. Put the throttle sensitivity way down in rF2 and you will get the same result, everything becomes a pussy cat to drive because your brain is so trained to not just feed in 95% throttle instantly.

    I'll stick to rF2 for historic cars, AC for modern GT, GSC for the offline and iRacing for actual racing. AC has achieved one thing none of those others have, making me push like a mad man.
     
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  15. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Why has AC made you push like a mad whereas ISI sims and IRacing havent? I've seen your videos, you seem to be pushing pretty hard. Do you have an RF2 corvette @ Loch video? Was that you? My apologies if that wasn't you, but if it was you seem to be pushin pretty nicely, and had some nice driving. Why has AC made you push, and why do you feel you are pushing more in AC? Does it have to do with the confidence you get from the car's/game's physics/FFB?

    I don't get the fidelic and sensitive responses from the car's behaviour like I do in other sims and in real life. The last few seconds of laptime are much MUCH too accessable in my opinion. There seems to be, in my opinion, pure handling dynamics MAJORLY compromised in order to get the sense of control and grip that you get in real life. It's like in order to transmit the experience of real life grip and stability, they had to seriously add in way too much forgiveness and simplicity in the vehicle dynamics.

    I can relate the experiences of RFactor based sims, Iracing, and Netkar Pro to real life. I've done so in probably over 5 different race cars, on multiple tracks in North America and 1 in Italy. I promise you, I truly honestly promise you, the movements and tiny differences that make one guy spin, one guy look like he's glued to the track, and another guy fighting the wheel all over the place.....the tiny differences that determine going through a high speed direction change looking glued to the track like it's so straightforward and easy, while another guy in the same car and speed spins off on the direction change.......all these tiny differences that make some people look like they're driving on ice but others look like they're glued to the track (because they are applying the right combination of steering/brake/throttle inputs at just the perfect moments depending on the cars state of grip and balance which is changing a million times a second)....I promise you that this super sensitivity and fidelity which can make you look like you are glued or on ice is EXACTLY how it is in real life when you are really on it. Despite the differences between RFactor based sims, Netkar Pro and IRacing (they all have their own positives, negatives, and feel) they all have one thing in common, and that is that they all model this overall experience I am describing, AC however does not, or at least not even close to the extent it should when compared to not only real life, but those other sims.

    If you ever get the chance to go to a racecar driving school, ask one of the instructors (try to get one that was an ex pretty high-end open wheel guy, not just some guy that is fast compared to most regular track day hot shots). Ask him to take you on a lap, but tell him to put 100% into the lap, like it was a qualifying lap, tell him to go for the highest entry speeds he can muster up, tell him you want everything out of him and the car. I promise you, a road car drivin like this has more sensitivy and movements and importance to your control inputs than any car in AC.

    My instructor took me on a crazy hard Chevy Cavalier lap, it was the Z24 LOL those early 2000 ones, when drivin hard it was more sensitive to your inputs than even the race cars in AC. This isnt videos, or articles im telling you about, this is all first hand (or second hand, if the passenger seat counts lol) experience.

    I don't want to sound like some know it all, but i've experienced all this in real life and can easily connect it to RFactor based sims, IRacing AND Netkar Pro, although they all do it with their own feel and ways (different physics engines) they still all portray it, but AC is the only sim that doesnt portray this much, if at all, to me. It feels more like a console sim/game that has undergone a "sim" makeover to make it better than GT, but still too video game-ish at the heart of it all. It's like the perfect balance, it's more sim than GT, but not nearly deep and uncompromising enough like a "hardcore" sim. It's in that perfect middle ground, to please 95% of console fans and also 70%-80% of simracing fans as well, which will sadly, but surely, have it recieving so much praise from both camps that people will think RF2 (anything ISI based), IRacing and Netkar Pro have it all wrong, when most people really have no idea what they're talking about.

    I hope i'm wrong about that last sentance, it would be a real shame.
     
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  16. realkman666

    realkman666 Registered

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    I haven't tried AC past the Tech demo, but I hear you on the nKP and rF2 fidelity. I think nKP is probably still the best at transmitting info, whereas rF2 is more complex but surprises me more, which forces me to drive with my eyes more than my hands, and it annoys me. Until I get the right FFB settings in rF2, nKP still seems unrivaled. What I've seen from AC videos (can't wait for the demo!) is very disappointing. It looks like stability is the default and you have to work to make the car feel alive.
     
  17. Empty Box

    Empty Box Registered

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    Nope. I haven't posted anything from rF2 since Mores and the Howston because rF2 just isn't something I like to talk about much for various reasons, mainly the fact that I'm not a fan at all and the fanbase is as rabid as they come so inevitably when I do say something bad (which if you watch my videos I say bad stuff about EVERY sim, even GSC which I am a self admitted fanboy of) they go crazy, rather than taking it as just some guy's thoughts.

    Honestly, I don't know why it feels different in regards to making me feel like I have to push. I'll be interested to see how it changes once we get into a race situation as I've always been a consistency guy who drives under my limit if that changes. It's the same thing with corner speeds. The GSC F3 car is of similar speed, you get similar enough mid corner speeds, but the Formula Abarth it feels like I have to really try and get there. I'm using the same FoV, yet the way speed is displayed feels different in a way. (no motion blur) As for speed, I disagree it's too easy to find your ultimate speed. I spent about 3 hours with the P4/5 at Mugello in AC and still kept finding nibbles of time, this week for my iRacing SRF race at Sebring I spent 45 minutes and won't be getting faster with my skill. Even when I was new to the SRF, it still didnt take that long to hit my skill wall.

    Do I think it's perfect? No, not at all. However, I do think that for Modern GT cars and road cars, it's as good as anything else out there currently in that regard. To me, it feels like a mixture of the iRacing Ford GT and the Corvette here (speaking of the M3 and P4/5 - both on hard / super hard tires) only "softer", which I think is a combo of a bit too much long. grip and a not so sensitive throttle. It is a bit insensitive to having too much weight on the nose on corner entry, though in other sims I typically run a stiffer front spring and shock combo than most to help with this so maybe that is why it doesnt feel as removed.

    But heck, it's three weeks old, it's already not that bad compared ot it's competition. It's been two years, iRacing's NTM ain't perfect, rF2 ain't perfect.

    I will say though, I'm not trying to break the physics, I'm not going out of my way to look for any last flaw like some are here. I'm using the same type of inputs in any of the three and getting similar output. IMHO, rF2 is the one that feels different than the bunch, and it has from the start.
     
  18. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    I find that with RF2 the limit is like a wall with most the cars , its blatantly apparent when you are on it and when you can no longer push once you have found that wall faster laps are gained by hitting brake points slightly better and car set-up rather than trying to subtly balance the car , Often times in RF2 it might look like you are balancing it on the limit but that "balancing" doesn't really translate to lap time benefits.

    I think RF2 is as valid tool as any to learn track layouts , brake points and basic car handling , understanding what does what why tires heat up and how they wear , this is why I would recommend new drivers get Rf2 to try the skip out , but I think it fails to encapsulate the spirit or the real life "hook" and addiction of handling cars and feeling out the limit.




    In contrast to RF2 once you are up to pace AC encourages you to softly feel out the grip , at lower speeds the cars are fairly dull but when you are really pushing it feels like there is allot of depth to where you can gain and lose time.

    AC's cars also handle far more believably when it comes to low speed high angled corners and the way the cars regain grip after going over the limit or are put in more transient situations , some people saying that's the crux between using look up tables V a procedural system though I don't even know if RF2 uses look up tables and GSC seems to handle things well for the most part so its probably just down to how a given car is implemented.

    I can enjoy both simulators for different things , I will probably be putting more time into AC though as its far more satisfying when it comes to the basic aspects of the driving and setting fast laps. I probably wont renue on-line side of RF2 as its practically dead even though ISI finally did there own servers which is really nice but far to late.

    For me I always found RF2 allot easer than NKP and AC when it comes to racing, RF2 you can so easily find the drop off point of grip and then its just a case of memorising that and never going over it.

    AC requires you to dance around that area and compared to NKP AC is harder still as the "limit zone" seems allot smaller so its far easer to accidentally under steer or just have to much slip happen.

    Ultimately though an alien will always make some BS set-up regardless of the game and without the G forces or proper strength in the FFB sim-racing will always be weirdly sterile and never match reality, not even close. For that reason I'd always just treat driving sims as games that happen to have deep mechanics.

    Finally the whole steam auto updating in game apps and AC having a nifty interface are just sugar on-top of the cake.

    I'm sure AC will annoy allot of people on here as its very different to drive from the ISI games and you have to approach it in a different way to get the most out of it.

    I also Agree with some in that Intuitively I'd expect the FAbarth to have a looser rear on the gas than it does , but then you see some videos where its exactly like the game and others where it drives more like a skipy , outside of what's real or not my preference is always for cars that have more power than grip so be interesting to see what moders do or if other race cars offer more of that.

    With all simulators I think you always find that there are maybe 2 or 3 cars though that you really want to stick with and others being not fun to drive as they don't jive with you as a driver or the simulator makes them boring for example RF1 was my GO to sim for F1 cars as no other simulator really did them right.

    As I say I'd still get people to buy RF2 , worth buying all the simulators really they don't cost that much and all have something to offer.

    BTW Euro truck sim is on sale for $3.74 on steam :)
     
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  19. Jerry Luis

    Jerry Luis Banned

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    I can disagree in that part.

    Since rf2 still a good way to go as AC i think, slowly growing up online community is better than creating a hype in the small community of sim racers (not arcade racing games) then let a lot of people disappointed on release.

    I think ISI made that mistake at beginning or i was expecting in that time what i got in rf2 now (to software itself, not related to mods - I think there are today more mods and tracks than i can learn to drive - unfortunately).
    I think AC made the same mistake as ISI, even worst because the steam thing.

    I´m a noob in sim racing but this what i can see from outside.
    What make me think in this way it is because i think rf1 community still bigger than rf2 users comunnity, but i could be wrong since i dont have rf1 anymore.
     
  20. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    I really dont understand this, the game is obviously not finished and has a looooooong way to go (as RF2 did when it was first released) so why not just keep it and try it out again in a few months? unless you're really strapped for cash but if you were you would'nt of bought it in the first place, my advice - let it gather dust on your HD until v1.0 and try again.
     
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