So hows AC for you?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nazirull Safry Paijo, Nov 25, 2013.

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  1. Esteve Rueda

    Esteve Rueda Registered

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    Do you understand at least one word of what I'm talking about? Or Mulero? Do you only post a video of a F Abarth sliding and you call me liar? I'm not saying you can't slide, I'm saying all time physics are so forgiving and you have to work hard to break grip. As David did the during whole lap, you have to struggle a lot to achieve that and even doing It sometimes cars behaves like glued, becuase just driving bad you can't achieve slides, as Mulero did in his video. I'm not talking about impossibility to slide, I'm talking about glued behaviour and forgiving physics most of time you are driving. In normal situations you will not slide with little mistakes because of this, the car does not react to tiny inputs, steering or gas inputs... Its weird how can you push from 0% to 100% throttle in most cars with any problem, or at least a sign of danger, despite you are pushing in a wrong position.

    Probably my last post in this thread (I hope, I feel like stupid talking about this xD), enjoy AC! I will enjoy the rest of sims I'm enjoying right now, sims I can feel something :eek:

    Edit: and see how David just did an aggressive steering move to purposely unbalance the car to achieve slides in lots of his slides, at the final of that video... even with that some of them looks like rear glued like las one.
     
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  2. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    For things like this I said that it's sad that you have to lie. Because I didn't make those moves on purpose, I was simply driving as fast as I could, and at the end of the session I recorded them for fun. Quite far from using "unbalanced setups" or "doing agressive steering moves to purposely unbalance the car to achieve slides".

    Anyway, yes, have fun :cool:
     
  3. Jason Kinchington

    Jason Kinchington Registered

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    I think AC is pretty good it does look good I think it handles good
    I think it will be a great game with single player aswell

    I think rfactor2 looks good, not as good as AC
    I think rfactor2 feels good, better than AC
    Just waiting for single player in one of them
    Happy happy happy
     
  4. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

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  5. JorgeANeto

    JorgeANeto Registered

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    Trying AC again yesterday I got different feelings...

    The Lotus car is quite believable, you can feel its limits and the "break" of grip as people here say and yes, you can over-steer very easily. But others (formula Abarth i.e.) I couldn't... sometimes the driving seems scripted (it's a exaggeration, ok... but just a feeling), the steering inputs recall me a keyboard playing, too "digital"... and very hard to induce a rear-end slipping. (TC is off - you can induce oversteering but it seemed hard to me)

    That situation remind me GT5 (Play Station), where the road cars are nice and believable but the powerful race cars are terrible.
     
  6. williang83

    williang83 Registered

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    I guess that both are partially wrong and correct. I mean the hugest problem in AC is not power oversteer (which is what occur on this video) but rather lift oversteer. It is easy to archieve a power oversteer if you trick the setup a bit but even with extreme setup modification ( for example stiff front rebound and stiff rear bump plus no differential) you still have no lift oversteer and extreme understeer as soon as you apply power which makes me think that there is something weird because with a weird setup i would wait for a really weird behave.
    Don't get me wrong, AC has a lot of potential plus we are still on ALPHA (that's not beta, not for a racing simulator) but at current time they game behave really weird sometimes.
     
  7. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    Imo it's a lot easier to achieve lift off oversteer than power oversteer in AC :p
     
  8. feels3

    feels3 Member

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    Kubica said some time ago, that understeer car can be faster than oversteer. (the same goes for Alonso)

    As for your setup, I remember that I had a setup from you for my Lambo in our GT leauge, I couldn't drive that car at the begining (as you know, I suck when it comes to manage oversteering in cars).
    During few races, I was working on that setup, making it more and more understeer (and trying to keep as much grip as possible in front tires), and finally the best evolution of this setup I had on Vallelunga circuit when I won with Kobe because of two reasons, one of them was that I was able to save my rear tires in good shape, I was following Kobe for many laps, when I noticed that he's dancing on the exits, it was only a matter of time for me :)

    That setup was super understeer, but it worked for me, also in qual (qual, not our short 1st race) where I was 2nd, very close to Kobe, so it wasn't only good setup for tire wear, car was really fast on the single lap.
     
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  9. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    If you drive hard the answer is yes, I'm sorry but you're wrong. Your car should always be in a state of slide, not big corrections, but a state of slide, wether it's understeer, oversteer, or 4 wheel sliding. You don't have to be 1 second from world record times to experience this, but you do need to be approaching some tyre slip at at least certain parts of the cornering phase, which let's face it, we all do at least here and there in our sims. Also, when you are in this very minor, BUT CONSTANT, sliding state, your tiny throttle/brake/steering inputs can make a very large impact to looking like (but not actually) you're glued to the track, or fighting the car, or a big spin, depending on your inputs, it can all vary so drastically and dynamically based on your inputs due to the complexity and depth of the vehicle dynamics.

    Tyres allow a decent amount of slip, especially in the dry, but within that slip angle your car is always, well, SLIPPING, and you can massively influence how planted and grippy or how "icy" the slip is by all your small control inputs. In real life, in GSC, in RFactor 1/2, in IRacing, in Netkar Pro, YOU CONTROL THE SLIP, YOU CONTROL IF IT'S ICY SLIP OR GOOD SLIP BECAUSE THE DEPTH OF THE PHYSICS ALLOWS SO MANY DIFFERENCES IN SLIP DEPENDING ON HOW THE PLAYER DRIVES/FEELS THE CAR, but not in AC, it's lifeless when driving hard, it's difficult to be the fastest like in any game, but it has no depth, no complexity to it's vehicle dynamics.

    I've experienced this in multiple cars/racecars in real life, my friend who has raced star Mazda and formula Atlantic (national karting champion as well, has met Schumacher in Las Vegas karting event) experiences this as welI, and I get this in all ISI sims, in iracing, even in Netkar Pro, but I don't get this in AC.

    It has some really good points to it's physics and how it connects certain things in physics to your FFB, giving you a good realistic sense of control and realism. The wheel feel towards the front tyres feels good, but if you look at how the cars act and react based on your inputs you'll see it's severely been "dumbed down", you get away with WAY too many things, again not only compared to RFactor and IRacing but compared to Netkar Pro aswell.

    Try netkar pro, a hardcore sim that many feel is less "icy" and more forgiving than iracing and RFactor (especially RFactor 1). You will see that even in Netkar Pro the vehicle behavior is MUCH more complex/deep and dynamic, it, like other sims and real life, places much more importance to your brake/throttle/steering application than Assetto Corsa, MUCH more.
     
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  10. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    I think there will always a divide, on one side you had GPL on the other F1

    Nothings changed the people drawn to sims like Grid and Shift also like Legends and pCARS and AC for the showy graphics.

    The ones stayed on path with the more considered titles GTR/GTL/rF seemed to prefer rF2 , iRacing, etc

    At least that is the overall feel I get.
     
  11. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    Clearly you are not iRacing member, if you ever checked they forum you would never say that :D
     
  12. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    I dont feel much difference in "forgiveness" between Netkar's F-2000 car and the Formula Abarth (very similar specs), I remember smashing the throttle there easily like we do with the Abarth.

    Also, when you mention rF1, you should better talk about mods, because the tire physics can be a lot different depending what mod are we talking about. Some mods have good tire physics, others have crap physics.
     
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  13. samuelw

    samuelw Registered

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    I don't understand the claim cars are easy to drive "at the limit." I don't understand the accolade that AC is "natural" to drive.

    "At the limit" is as fast as a car can corner. Any faster and the car slides out from under you, and you either crash and burn or you lose speed. The art of driving fast is approaching the corner on a fast "racing line" and entering the corner at just the right speed, just slow enough so the car doesn't slide out from under you. Off the line by a little bit or a little too fast, and the car understeers, oversteers, or snap oversteers. and you lose maybe a lot of time. Don't feel bad your car control is lacking. Jenson Button dosn't claim to have it, neither did Prost. Clark had it in spades but he didn't bring it out when he was serious in the 25, just in the Cortina. Anyway the idea is not to need car control. RF2 does punish you when you go in too hot or you're sloppy about your line.

    I have not purchased AC. I read this thread to see if I wanted to buy AC. People bragging AC is "natural" to drive is not really a recommendation to me because I don't believe driving, especially fast, is something I would call natural. I remember a night when I hit a bump in the road in my mother's 65 Ford Galaxy at about 120 mph. The word natural was nowhere around. Seriously what are people saying when they describe AC as natural to drive? THe only meaning I can figure out is that they are saying they can drive AC which would not be a strong recommendation.

    I do disagree with those claiming driving fast is easy. Many have lost their lives trying to go fast. Current safety measures have cut down the carnage but top drivers are paid millions. If its so easy go get a contract with Ferrari even offer to drive for free.
    SW
     
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  14. Niksounds

    Niksounds Registered

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    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
     
  15. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    I think you need to find a better word than "natural". If your car is unsettled after hitting a bump, and the sim version does the same, that's "natural", because it replicates the real version. I think no one says driving fast is easy, it's very challenging, and so is with simracing. If it's easier in simracing go and beat Greger Huttu, Atze Kerkhof, Bono Huis, Hugo Luis, Morgan Morand, etc.
     
  16. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    From AC forums:

     
  17. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    If the majority of iR drivers did not come from Papyrus, Simbin or ISI backgrounds then where did they come from. ?

    Codemasters or Shift ? lopl ;)
     
  18. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    The first what comes in my mind but it would be a big mistake to think it was possible to compete against GT, nor the gameplay neither the content can keep the pace, not to mention the fanbase from ages.

    "unwillingness to accept any and all constructive criticisms of the game.
    I don't know if AC was designed to be forgiving or if they are struggling with the physics, but it doesn't look like they are trying to be a hardcore sim from what we've seen"

    Maybe they do not understand or won't or simply don't know how, what i doubt but i also don't understand the attitude.

    Perhaps it is the great attention that irritates the developer atm.

    I have not much seating time but what i was experiencing yesterday evening was not bad, even pretty much the closest in some area to usual car behaviour but with some bad errors in certain areas, mainly in shock absorbers and tires. Neverthless the disturbing things, it was still the first driving simulator after rf2 which appealed to me to turn a round over and over again. My honest opinion, should these details be even better, it will hard to beat it because it's about to be perfect for the todays possibilities at home.
     
  19. ZeosPantera

    ZeosPantera Registered

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    They came from the BBQ and a Nascar Race Tailgate party and saw Oval racing in the internets. They signed up and here we are.

    Seriously. I have to think more then 50% (way more) of iracing subscribers have never tried anything else. They bought into their new hobby and just keep chucking cash at it.
     
  20. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

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    I never said anything about oversteer cars :)
    I'm comparing slightly understeer (good balance for racing) to overly understeer (safe balance for street cars).

    To put it even simpler - imagine there's an "optimum balance". You get more understeer than that, you get slower. You get less understeer than that, you get slower as well. You get even less understeer, up to the point when you become oversteer - you get even slower.


    I'm only referring here to people, who confuse "being more understeer" with "having more grip".
    I'm not here to compare AC, rF2, iR or whatever sim to real life, but it's odd seeing so many people making comparisons, while confusing such basic things :)

    I believe you have a different definition of oversteer than me :)
     
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