So hows AC for you?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nazirull Safry Paijo, Nov 25, 2013.

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  1. David G Fisher

    David G Fisher Registered

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    I read the first few pages of this thread but had to give up. Can some of you just let people post whatever the hell they want, and stop telling everyone HOW they should post, and what you think the rules of posting are? I can decide on my own if someone's full of **** or not. I don't need your damn help.
     
  2. Jamie Shorting

    Jamie Shorting Registered

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    The game will do very well since its aimed at a much broader audience like pCars.

    This guy looks like he can go full throttle at anytime.



    The cockpit looks great and I love the suspension sound samples.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2013
  3. Nazirull Safry Paijo

    Nazirull Safry Paijo Registered

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    I just wanna know how rf2 handles the car characteristics and translate it to ffb compared to AC.

    Closest i can think of is the Camaro which has a tail happy handling
     
  4. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    That is going to be such a subjective aspect though. People have so many different views on what feels right to them, and also what they are looking for in a sim. Some people are finding huge depth in AC and its physics and FFB, others find it lacking in the way the physics relate to the FFB, and others again feel that there is no depth to the physics and the FFB is seriously lacking.
    Some people I've seen who love the AC FFB talk about the feeling of weight it has, a big force coming from the wheel at all times and that gives them a better sense of driving and controlling the car. Like a big chunk of meat they can really chew on. That same person does not like rF2's FFB which can be quite light at times and "rattly" depending on your damper settings.
    For others, it is the opposite. The heavy spring smothers the other details they are looking for so they just feel like they are turning a big spring force with little actual feedback in their opinion

    Then you can do the same for "canned effects". Person A might like the way in AC the wheel gives you some feedback when the brakes are locked, so you know you have locked them, or the way the rumble strips have a preset effect to them which is not too harsh so it doesn't upset your steering or rattle the wheel around. Person B may like the way rF2 has no canned effects, and everything is coming from the road surface. The rumble you get depends on the way the rumble strip is made, etc, even though it can be super harsh sometimes.

    Then you've got personal settings for the FFB and even how the person holds the wheel and how hard they grip it, which can have a big effect on what they feel. You'd have to wait for a demo or something to give it a test drive.
     
  5. Nazirull Safry Paijo

    Nazirull Safry Paijo Registered

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    I once believed that 'simulation' supposed to be what u get from a car. Ure not supposed to change it to 'how u liked it to feel', especially the feel on the steering.

    But now, devs do 'simulations' that please the masses.
     
  6. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    Mmm...

    I could believe that type of statement if we all had Ecci/Frex/Bodnar type wheels, with a pedal box setup taken from a real car, rigged with some kind of hydraulic damper circuit to mimic brake feel/realistic pressures, and a force feedback shifter that could mimic the vibes and feel of a gearbox all wrapped up in a big ass motion sim. But we don't, so there have to be compromises to cover a vast range of people, hardware and setups. You know that.

    You have to be able to change things with FFB. I run no damper with my G25, and it rattles quite a lot but I drive fine with it that way. Someone may care a bit more for their wheel, and so they may run a lot of damping to take the edge of all the forces. It's pretty much all subjective feelings and opinion on what it should be like. If you can set the game to what you think is "real", then that's great and you will have a fun time racing. Certainly would not feel real to the guy with a Bodnar wheel who can run a huge FFB multiplier...
     
  7. Nazirull Safry Paijo

    Nazirull Safry Paijo Registered

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    Devs shud provide closest settings to life for lower spec simmers. Instead of tweaking it to fit their 'feel'
     
  8. Frankysco

    Frankysco Registered

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    I totally agree.
     
  9. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

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    Ok, I'll do it tomorrow, today I'm going drinking after work.
     
  10. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    Should they?

    Or should it be?:
    There is a difference!

    I think hardware is the simmers' own responsibility, if you use toys, that sim can output all it wants
    but it will never feel better than the hardware can make it feel no matter if its AC or rF2.


    Worst part is, I'm getting more and more curious but no chance to try it without spending 35 bucks :p

    Although I think the initial setup should be the most realistic possible, I agree there should be easy access to change settings to make up for limiting factors such as hardware. I remember in GTR2 you had quite some sliders in the force feedback menu which you could
    use to really tune what you felt in terms of steering force, road noise, kerb bumps, etc.


    I'm still curious about how everybody feels about software vs hardware. Software wise, big steps are being made imo but everybody is still using the same old hardware which can diminish lots of improvements software wise*, including myself sadly! This is a totally different discussion however.
    *A bodnar wheel in combination with rF1 will feel better than my g27 with rF2 for example
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2013
  11. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    This guy is a total noob, look the steering input before using the throttle, there he is loosing lots of front grip.

    By the way if my memory doesn't fail, that Zonda is the car with more downforce in the game actually. I've read on some article that it generates 2000kg of downforce at 186mph.
     
  12. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    To make it more visual, with such steering inputs, the front tires are on the red zone all the time:

    [​IMG]

    That means that the front tires are providing less grip than at optimal slip angles, and less grip on front tires = understeer.
     
  13. Esteve Rueda

    Esteve Rueda Registered

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    It is not a total noob, is only exaggeratting inputs to show how car reacts... and the transition from higher force/slip to exagerated slip angle and low force, is... weird, the car does nothing, just understeer even with full throttle in a 750HP car, in every single situation of that video the car does not react, just glued to track or massive understeer despite haveing 750HP power (even in sitations he does not abuse steering angle). Try to use those inputs in a real 750HP car, or just imagine It...
     
  14. Timpie Claessens

    Timpie Claessens Registered

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    So after Jamie was proven wrong about the Zonda on the iR forums, he's going to try and do it here.
     
  15. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

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    Watch the Nordchleife onboard with Zonda R. Look how glued to the track it is. During whole lap he corrected maybe 2-4 times. Zonda R is not a racing car made for racing drivers it's a car for rich owners and best clients of Pagani. It has to give the thrills but not to kill you on first occasion (it even has ABS). Look for reviews, basically they all says that it's very easy to drive.
     
  16. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    Christ.

     
  17. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    It honestly gets worse and worse. The harder you abuse the cars the worse it looks. When something spins or is hard to balance on the limit people will blame the sim, even if the sim is perfect, they will still blame the same because they can't just face the fact that they spun the cars and that they didn't have the feel/skill/theoretical knowledge/experience to hold the car on the limit without going over it, so instead they blame the sim. So, in order to avoid all this blaming and turning off customers, and having so many casual gamers bad mouth the product, etc etc they instead made it 80% hardcore sim with this MASSIVE layer to the physics/tyre model to not scare off/keep the non-hardcore crowd.

    - Lots of hardcore sim players will like it because of Kunos' reputation with Netkar Pro luring and suckering in tons of hardcore sim fans who thought this would be just as good, if not better (physics wise). Plus, under the limits it feels good.

    - Then you will have the sim players who have a hard time understanding the things we have been trying to explain in this and many other threads, they will like it too, so kunos will get sales from that crowd too.

    - Then they will get sales from the console crowd because AC is like a Forza/GT game but just with improved physics and much better FFB, so they will get sales from all that crowd.

    - Then they will also get sales from the crowd that just wants a cool pretty realistic driving game with awesome car licenses and graphics. and with the ability to easily keep the car on the track with a gamepad controller, and they have done that as well.

    So basically the purity of the classic hardcore sim approach that we all thought Kunos was competing in, along with iracing, rfactor 2, even Piboso early beta stuff, Game Stock Car, etc. is gone. They have transitioned over to this 80% sim/20% "accessible to all" physics approach.

    This has nothing to do with the "harder doesn't equal more realistic" comeback everyone keeps going on about. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with that :)
     
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  18. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

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    What a bunch of nonsense :)
     
  19. Hedlund_90

    Hedlund_90 Registered

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    :confused: :confused:

    Now I'm curious of what you're trying to prove with that video. It looks like you are trying to prove that rf2 does the same thing as AC? Well that's childish :p Why don't you compare to reality instead? Both sims are trying to simulate the REAL cars and therefor I think that if you want to compare rf2 and AC you should not compare them with each other but with reality. And that is not even the same type of car!? Sorry I can't see your point at all..

    btw I do not drive the F2 very often in rf2 but I had to try it now, and I can easily create oversteer when I give full throttle mid-corner with full steering input? in your video it looks like you turn your wheel but let go of the throttle? I thought you guys were discussing whether the AC 750hp car should oversteer in the same situation but with full throttle or not? It also sounds exactly like you're using the brake at the same time as throttle in some corners?
     
  20. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Another AC thread gone wrong ??

    Time to close it ??


    [​IMG]

    (P.s I don't have anything against anyone on here, or AC I'm just AC subject overdosed)
     
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