So about that new UI

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lino Carreira, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    The "next big thing in simracing" already happened. It´s VR
    Thanks to Isi for the quality of this sim, s397 for polishing stuffs and and hopefully atract more users, investing on laser scanned tracks and modders for their work.
     
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  2. Stevy

    Stevy Registered

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    Well the next "big thing" could be a sim with the AI and physics of rFactor2. The online structure and playerbase like iRacing. Modability like AC. Sounds like RaceRoom ects. (I hope it's clear what I want to say). So a GTR3 :D. At the moment every single sim lacks something, somewhere. You can't deny that.

    what war ? What are you talking about ?


    People go where other people are. Thats what I want to say. I think just because rFactor gets a new UI and online structure it won't get famous and the to go sim over night. Every time UI is mentioned people start to tell how great and good and what not rFactor will get.
    I think the effect of the new update will be quite underwhelming. You will not finally find full server online. And you will not see people talk day/night over rFactor. Yes, I wish it will be like this and it will come true but to be honest I don't think so.
     
  3. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

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    GT3 would be awesome :)
    i wait for it
     
  4. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

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    Of course thousands of people will not come from night to day, what i meant is that, like you said, people will go where others are, and this new revolutionary complement to rF2 combined with the new lightning and the other effects (i don't remember now) for sure will bring things to another level! Also, people are more aware these days of simulators, arcades or simcades are losing ground for simulations, because of the growth of the hardware, more information about it, etçª. So when you're really interested in simulation and start searching for something really reliable, rF2 appears on top of choices, so naturally they'll come...

    It reminds me of rFactor1, when it was released most people didn't even had a wheel (myself included), the games people were playing were mostly arcade titles with keyboard and rFactor1 was looked at as an outsider enemy, except for those who were looking for the "real thing" (a minority). So this will happen with rF2, so it needs time to be on point so that when you fire your shot you'll make sure you'll hit your target ;)
     
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  5. elbo

    elbo Registered

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    Well right now rF2 gets no mention outside of these forums...In oculus forums, when people ask about driving games for VR the titles people mention are AC, Iracing, and the arcade racers but rF2 never gets mentioned. Hopefully the update will tidy up the game a little bit so that new comers do not dismiss it right away. For us who have been hacking away at ISI games for 10+ years it is all part and parcel and we live with it but I look at simple things that could make new comers more comfortable...ex in AC hovering over settings gives you a short blurb on what it does...hover over rear ARB's and it says something along the lines of decrease to reduce oversteer...simple stuff a new guy appreciates.
    I don't expect miracles from the new UI, heck I personally am happy with how it is now but if it helps ease people into the game its at least a small win.
     
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  6. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    That's very true, and that's why I keep chasing the 1's and 2's around on the multiplayer server list trying to find some real people to do some laps with (or occasionally take a gamble on a 6 or 11, only to find (usually) there is an odd number of AI on there). Got some servers up and running and the other day there were 6 people on it - presumably 2 joined, another one saw it and jumped on, and suddenly a few more floaters said "oooooh look, some action" and joined in too.

    If the new UI and backend stops the AI showing up as players on the server list, and servers are easier to set up and hopefully also allow a little more customisation and control (without digging through .ini/JSON files or needing plugins to work around subtle bugs), we could very quickly end up with a handful of servers with people jumping on fairly consistently. That's all you need to give new players something to try immediately instead of pronouncing rF2 multiplayer dead, the ones not addicted to arcade physics will more likely hang around, then numbers keep attracting numbers and suddenly there's actually a community building.

    From what I've heard most of the sims are pretty quiet at the moment, but there are more than there used to be so you could probably argue a similar playerbase is just more spread out. None of them are perfect, so if rF2 can improve it can only help, even if a little. But overnight stardom? No.
     
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  7. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    @elbo It does get mentioning, but not very much, should be more, probably will get more. Speaking of newcomers disimissing rF2 because they has no idea about things _ thats true, for every wheel there should be good base FFB settings, and warning for people so they wouldn't instantly break it by random adjustments. Optimal graphical and various settings right away would be awesome. Good basic content and race settings right on the plate. Perhaps few simple events to introduce the newcomer to less obvious stuff. Personally I did not use rF2 for a long time because it lacked quality and several other reasons, not because it takes a little time to setup correctly.

    Speaking of explanations over setup elements, it is great thing. In AC I'd say it was little help, but much better than nothing. At the very beginning I remember racing not even knowing about optimal pressures, and in AC that thing is magic for pace. It took quite a bit of reading and forum discussions to understand basic principles of dampers. The most stupid thing is that I really understood ARB's only this summer, when I really got into tires, in fact most of the setup lights up when you'll understand tires (though I suppose no one really understands them, but lets say having a bit of clue is great already).


    A bit off topic.
    Perhaps not getting "super" famous is the best way. Look at AC it obviously has its shortcomings, but so many people doesn't even see them, because a lot of those shortcomings actually makes whole thing easier for them and they struggle to simplify it even more. I talk about authenticity of physics and various features. Including even sun position (because shadows, braking points OMG) ! Speaking of shadows, Kunos with ACC is already living in a shadow of AC, to my mind ACC at initial release was miles more realistic than AC. What happened ? AC enthusiasts started freaking out that "it is not like AC", some iRacers came to declare that "it is not like iRacing".. Looks to me that, very sadly, in attempt to keep the users which are so attached to AC, ACC in terms of authenticity was heavily pulled backwards to AC, because community knows the best, right ? Or maybe not.


    That is huge issue IMO, because if developers work on a product which has to replicate something and they achieve good results, then they should be stubborn and keep it that way. But if developers easily changes their things as majority of people seems to be having a hard time in switching between "realities", then it doesn't look right to me.

    If rF2 would get popular over night, or if it would have a realistic opportunity to multiply the numbers several times, I wish it wouldn't be because of some cheap stuff, like "oh lets throw away most stuff which causes challenges". I wish people wouldn't flock to rF2 only because of "because others does" reason. I wish rF2 would get more popular and keep the authenticity and realism, and if it would improve it wouldn't actually be simplifications to make it more tasty for simpleton. Not saying that it is always less realistic if something is made to be easier, IMO for simulator you have to get to the extreme of being "too difficult" before you get it right.
     
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  8. jjcook

    jjcook Registered

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    absolutely ....those of us still out there would appreciate a little help from the company with this issue
     
  9. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    rF2 is what it is. Unless it changes in order to become more popular, it won't change because there are more numbers.

    The devs with ACC are stuck. Their playerbase isn't as hardcore as the rF2 playerbase, so what can you do? Do you alienate the majority of your players by going more 'sim' than they're ready for, and probably want? That's not a good business decision. So yeah, the community you want to keep knows best.

    Of course as rF2 players we'd (mostly) prefer all games moved towards sim, but that's why we're playing rF2. In the unlikely event it suddenly captures half the 'driving game' market it will do so by being realistic, so just like the ACC devs you stick with what you have. We have to be thankful ISI stayed on this path instead of chasing popularity by simplifying things, hopefully S397 can do enough with it to make it sustainable and even profitable (it seems it wasn't for ISI in the long run).
     
  10. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    Amen to that
     
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  11. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    It's an interesting debate you have with yourself about why you play game A vs game B for a given scenario. The decision frankly rarely comes down to what the UI is like; its more based on game features/capabilities.

    A lot is being assumed about the impact of the new UI for rF2; I don't think it'll be that significant. I'm not happy about the fact that it has taken 2 years so far, and that they rolled in single-player and competition/multi-player into one UI. Should have done the latter via a website not as part of the core game. iRacing are having the same issue with their "beta UI". Most people hate it. It's extremely slow and buggy, which is enough of an impediment, but the main issue most of us have with it is usability. Hope and pray the rF2 UI doesn't have the same usability issues, but I've got a sneaking suspicion we're going to end up with performance issues. Most informal survey/anecdotal evidence in their forums are against the beta UI, with the usual suspects saying "you're just old and don't like change".

    For myself, iRacing was my go-to title because of the multi-player. It runs pretty well on my old PC, but I gave up certain graphical goodies as a result. I've stopped online racing with it because of the physics/tire model being borked and not fixed. They've now added dynamic skies/TOD and my computer is hurting much as it does in other titles. I had high hopes of pCARS 2 being a good compromise on physics and graphics (I've liked TOD/rain on that for hotlapping) but frankly I've now decided the physics are too limiting to really be used, and I won't buy another of their titles. The physics in rF2, as many have said, is what keeps us around and I use it as an alternate, offline driving experience. If the competition system works, I could make a move to online with rF2. But we know almost nothing about it. Without that, I can't commit further to rF2, so I will continue to use it for offline hotlapping/practice with AI with the recent content. But content is also an issue in that mode; pC2 make it much easier to continue on that because of the wealth of content they have. But for now, I elect to put up with less content availability in return for better physics; but I do get bored, and now waiting 6+ months for any other tracks and the one they will release I am not interested in, doesn't make me feel any better for it. Content is ultimately what will decide on-going popularity of rF2 in my opinion, and not from modders because they are now incapable of producing the quality I expect.
     
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  12. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

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    assetto corsa for fast pick up races for me
    pcars2 handling isnt enjoyable
    Iracing is expensive to focus online and keep buying
    so i really hope S397 to fix a super duper online experience for RF2
    they must found a way to gather as many people as possible around RF2
    and this must be the online part
     
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  13. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Agreed with 99% of your post, especially about the impact the new ui will have on drawing new members in, I just can’t see why it would have a huge impact myself.
    Content and online is what will decide the future of rf2, personally as long as I can jump into a race once or twice a week I’d be happy,
    You’re 100% correct that every sim is lacking something, I just don’t see a sim that offers everything you stated, as the next big thing, its actually imho long over due, and should have been on the market years ago.
    I also think that what you stated is the best future for rf2, and rf2 being the only sim that could offer us all that, because it has the basic fundamentals already.

    Some dev team could licence the rf2 physics and tyre models or engines what ever they are called and then add all the rest, but then that would be years down the line and quite expensive so it would probably be subscription based.

    S397 have a great opportunity to supply the sim community with this “next big thing” and from what I can tell, this is the path they have set upon, we just need to support them and be patient, easier said than done I know
     
  14. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    Exactly what I think ;)

    And to be honest, and I take it fully, I get impatient a lot, really a lot (this is by no means a reproach to S397).
     
  15. enduser

    enduser Registered

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    ...but online is something other games already cover pretty well with iracing specializing in that and its also at the same time direct result of a big player base which rf2 doesnt have atm. It isnt something that will make u stand out, on the other hand vlog reviews usually say offline gameplay is just an afterthought lacking in features (similar for AC and PC2 but for the AI), steam reviews all talk about the AI and RRE which is advertised as online game cares and discusses about AI / already have a very good one, they re quite active about it.

    I see 2 very strong points in rf2 vs the competition, physics & AI with big potential but they re not put forward, i d say rf2 struggles with its identity a bit. Instead s397 wants to add an online matchmaker idk do u think guys its a feature missing? I think its a quick race substitute i dont get all the fuss but i could be wrong, i mean i dont think simulators are about quick races, consoles are much better at that.
    The key word about online/net code in general is probably esports, dreaming about exposure, sponsors, commercial rights... however before that u need something strong u can promote, "we are iracing's cheaper alternative" is not it i think. Tough competition!

    Reading this thread just reminds me what i already think of RF, ISI are the exception to the rule with emphasizing in physics to the degree they have but they didnt manage to translate that to big profits/popularity which is probably something to be expected in the game industry. Collaborating with EA back in 2K didnt work for long either with the F1 titles (probably for the best, rfactor would be PC today), which shows industry just wants to profit, dont think EA ever cared about advanced simulator physics or something modable. GT3 is announced as an arcade title pretty much, that speaks for itself, so i guess its good to have rf2 with all its negatives.
     
  16. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    That's been obvious for a long time. Please tell us when you do become happy.

    So Lilski's Watkins Glen (from AC via a conversion team) was not up to the quality you expect?!? Watkins Glen is easily better than the officially released Botniaring 2017 which has obvious wall trees & could do with more polygons on the sand piles.

    I agree the UI will not be significant (nobody skipped playing a game because of the UI unless it was totally broken). Online competition system will also not be significant (you have to BE online for there to be an online community, eh?). Consistent, desired content will not be significant (how well has that helped AMS or pCARS 2?) [*]. Visible eSports will not be significant. A different product name will not be significant. Fixed AI will not be significant. DX11 has already proven to not be significant. Licensed series has only been significant for F1, but having only fictional cars has proven to be death. However, all the right elements combined just might be... provided there aren't a bunch of sour unhappy faces presented every time brings up rF2 in conversation. High player numbers has more to do with promoting a dream life rather than features.

    One more note about online community: there are easily 100k or more owners of AC on a PC, yet never more than 4k-5k are actually playing at the same time. Of those 4k-5k players at peak times, less than half are online (and a third of the online players are oriented towards touge/drift/trackdays rather than actually racing). Once again, you have to BE online for there to be an online community... I have my excuses (time zone, data caps, low quality connection, rebuilding my simrig, fishing) for why my online exposure is less than adequate, but I've managed one race with @Lazza in the past month. What are your excuses?

    [*] It might be time for S397 to separate out the modern content from the aged content. Don't remove the old content that doesn't show off rF2, but fence it off with a disclaimer "here's some older content you may enjoy even though it doesn't meet our current standards". Better would be to bring that old content up to current standards, but we all know there are priorities.
     
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  17. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

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    @Emery
    very interesting what you say about old content
    Iracing's most popular content is : Skip barber-Mazda MX5-Oval content
    recently Iracing licenced Formula Renault 3.5 <3
    i really hope some day to see both skip barber and formula Renault 3.5 up to date
    will make RF2 online department realy popular !!!!
     
  18. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    Level: orgasm.
     
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  19. stonec

    stonec Member

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    Well, to be fair those cars are not exactly up-to-date in iRacing either. AFAIK iRacing's Skip Barber 3D model is the same as the one I drove in 2010 or 2011, so by current standards it's ancient. rF2's version was made in 2012 or 2013, so it's a few years newer. The fact is that all sims have outdated content, but those cars still remain popular in iRacing.
     
  20. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Because they are free
     

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