Slow at standing start with GT3/GTE/LMP

Discussion in 'Technical & Support' started by AlexHeuskat, May 13, 2021.

  1. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    I use auto-clutch, and I'm slow at start with the GT3/GTE and LMP, there is a big big delay at start when I press the throttle, the RPM stays very low for many seconds....and the AIs overtake me always with the standing start.
    But with the Reiza cars, the BMW M2 CS, the Stock car 2018x, the Radical RSX, there is no delay, all is fine and I'm very fast at start.
    There is something broken with GT3, GTE and LMP.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
  2. JimmyT

    JimmyT Registered

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    Same question here https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/newbie-here-dumb-question.69612/
    I think it's since the inertia issue was addressed as per the request of some users stating it was broken. Extra inertia was added to the engine to assist with engine braking (from memory, used to be you took your foot off the pedal and it would take too long to run down) and this had a flow on effect with the starts.
    So was broken and now is fixed (depending on your point of view)
     
  3. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    all cars are good except GT3/GTE and LMP, so it's not fixed at all, the AI are too much fast at start, 5 or 6 AI each time overtake me...rofl again a AI issue I guess....
     
  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    That's all a bit backwards :p

    The whole thing was also based on an assumption about the core issue. Seems to happen a lot with physics discussions.

    "rofl" he didn't mean your issue was fixed.

    Your experience isn't unusual with those cars. If there's been an official response I don't remember it.
     
  5. JimmyT

    JimmyT Registered

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  6. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I have to admit I thought you'd linked to the much earlier discussion that brought up engine inertia as being bugged in those cars, but the same applies to the 'engine inertia bug' mentioned there. When the cars became (or were discovered to be) hard to get off the line, people looked at the engine rev up/down speed and just assumed engine inertia is the cause. This despite the engine rev-up being similar in other games (which were used for comparison), and despite engine inertia generally not being huge compared to the power available at mid-high revs and the braking torque caused by two chunky rear tyres.

    All that aside:

    The BoP changelog does mention some 'drivetrain loss' changes, but not specifically engine inertia (the inertia mentioned is body inertia, sometimes in combination with CoG changes). Still, even if engine inertia were increased, that would slow the engine braking process (if it were taking too long to drop revs, increasing inertia would make it worse), and it would improve the startline situation (the engine would have more momentum, so when you drop the clutch it wouldn't die so quickly).

    I personally suspect engine inertia itself isn't a massive factor in this, could be a matter of low engine power at low revs, or the (presumably correct) gearing being quite tall and not taking into account some vehicle systems that may compensate (total guess on my part, no inside knowledge), or clutch inertia being way off, or a typo in some other parameter that has this side effect. Who knows. But this was definitely discussed well before this year.

    Hopefully I've missed some official response regarding this, as all I saw was an argument between people assuming they knew what was wrong (without a lot of knowledge of rF2 physics, or physics in general in some cases) and then the occasional person perhaps playing devil's advocate and justifying the behaviour by saying the cars don't do standing starts.
     
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  7. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    and about my issue, I'm too much slow compared to the AI with GT3/GTE/LMP with the standing start, what can i do ? I have to not play with standing start, is that all ?
     
  8. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Yes, that's something you can do. What else can we say? We can't fix the cars for you. These cars only do rolling starts I gather, so that would even be realistic.
     
  9. atomed

    atomed Registered

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    These categories can't manage standing starts well in real life, I'd say the issue you are having is because a good simulation job in that aspect has been done.
     
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  10. JimmyT

    JimmyT Registered

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    I think you've cottoned on to me. :eek: But having had the GT cars from their first release I have seen a change in their ability to get off the line. Initially they did OK but after one of the updates (and here I can't be too clear on which one, see my sig) they were, as now, hard to get off the line (I just can't be arsed to go and find the posts that complained bitterly about it at the time, so no evidence submitted here). So (and this is where I make an ass out of u and me) I assumed that it was to do with a physics change made in said update. (Inertia was bandied around at the time)
    I don't mind being corrected on this (Go hard Lazza :) ) but as there is hardly any official input in this forum anymore, it will most likely be (like my comments) speculation.
    In short you @AlexHeuskat @Lazza and @atomed are on the right track (pun intended), rolling starts are the way to go (was that another pun?). :D:p
     
  11. redapg

    redapg Registered

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    @AlexHeuskat If i may also add my Opinion, i would say that there can be an easy Explanation, that the human Driver, that uses standing Start and Auto Clutch, has a Disadvantage against the AI, because of the LaunchRPMLogic Settings in the Engine.ini, that gets used by the AI, but not from the human Driver that uses Auto Clutch.
    The human Driver "normally" starts from Idle and the AI from a RPM that is somewhere between the max. Torque and max. Power Value.
    Check it out and switch into the Car of an AI, then you see/hear it revving up at Start.
    Unfortunately the Engine.ini, like all Physics Files from the DLC Cars, are encrypted as you know , so we have no Chance to check Things like the Nm PS Curves and other Settings.
    I did try it out and used the Ferrari 488 GTE and the Porsche GT3 R.
    With the Ferrari, even if i start from Idle, there is no Disadvantage.
    With the Porsche there is a Disadvantage, but it can be compensated, when i, with Auto Clutch in use, put the first Gear in, press the Brake and rev up too before green, where i just let go off the Brake then.
    Try it out, maybe it helps you too, to equalize the Disadvantage. ;)
     
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  12. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Wouldn't auto clutch work like this?
    1. Car in Neutral, Foot on brake, accelerator revving the engine.
    2. Lights go out...then full revs, foot off the brake, engage 1st gear.(all at the same time)
    3. off you go.
    This should work UNLESS you are also using Auto Shift. Shouldn't it?
     
  13. ThomasJohansen

    ThomasJohansen Registered

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    nope this give a "lag" and AI overtakes you before car is up in rev.
    I have even tried to use manual clutch at start (with auto clutch engaged) to see it that would give better start but no.
    also tried to disable all TC's to see if that had an effect but no difference.
     
  14. atomed

    atomed Registered

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    AI is taking thousands of decisions per second regarding traction, torque and acceleration and we are thinking "Come on, the race is won in the first corner", thereĀ“s no contest :rolleyes:
     

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