Slicks in the rain

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mister dog, May 17, 2019.

  1. mister dog

    mister dog Registered

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    I tried racing in the rain and accidentaly loaded my dry setup with soft slicks, had tons of grip felt/sounded like the track surface was completely dry. Tested with the McLaren 720 GT3 both on Thruxton and Zandvoort. Tweaked the humidity and rain levels to max and visually it's raining, but I could just lap like it was dry.

    Also when the tyres start to scrub or slip it sounds like the surface is dry, and there is no custom sfx of water being displaced by your wheels neither.
     
  2. stonec

    stonec Member

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    Did you wait long enough for the road to get wet? What was the realroad multiplier used (it impacts rain dynamics as well)?
     
  3. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    With the real road on X1 (only "realistic" setting), it takes some time for the track to be significantly wet, especially if the rain is not strong and there is a lot of AI.

    EDIT :

    And there is no aquaplaning on rF2 (pfffffff).
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  4. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    No aquaplaning is major thing for a tire with no thread. I actually have no idea, but I suppose it is only a function of tire contact pressure, speed and standing water depth and some coefficients of the tire.

    It always bugs me when I drive through the tracks with nicely made puddle maps, and I think they will never have physical effect. Well I actually don't know how exactly the puddle maps are made, but I think they has no connection with real road.
     
  5. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    So I ask myself the following question, I hope someone can answer :

    The visible puddles, as well as any water on the track are they based on real physical track data ?

    I thought that was the case.

    It would be bad news that this is not the case, because quite frankly I expected that the aquaplanning was planned by S397, because they had told simexpo that they were waiting for data from a team of LMP3 to improve the rain (correct me if I'm wrong because English is not my native language).

    If the puddles are not from real data, it calls into question many things concerning the possibility of the implementation of aquaplanning, finally I think.
     
  6. mister dog

    mister dog Registered

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    Thanks guys I'll pay attention to the realroad multiplier next time I boot up Rf2.

    Then it would work the same way as in PC2 as at first the track surface isn't wet there neither, which made people think wet weather racing was just a gimmick. They do have aquaplaning and deep puddles though :p
     
  7. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    "generall" track surface water level aquaplaning could work. I think. Puddles location based - very unlikely. Not awesome, but I just guess.

    I usually pick up the strongest possible rainfall in rF2. RR multiplier from 5-10 for quick try.
     
  8. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    one of the lcd screens will show how much water is on the track. I've driven with a drying line and 60% without too much difficulty. So you really need to get the track soaked and then take out your wets. A couple of years ago I took a formula car out on slicks at Sao Paulo and could not get back to the pits to change tires...slid off every touch of the throttle. Now the tires have changed a-lot since then, perhaps they went too far towards wet traction?
     
  9. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    Just to clarify the puddles thing
    The puddles are created with different depth and a puddle can have different depths depending on the zone.
    You can check this in our Monza and Montreal in the Workshop.
    The way to create the puddles is painting them on a template of the circuit. The darker of the zone painted is, the greater the depth of the puddle is.
    We have done the puddles watching a lot of videos and supposing the depth, but if you have real data, you can know the depth of the puddles, and make them in a better accurate way,
    It's supposed that this system will work when the phisics of aquaplaning have ben done.
     
  10. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I don't believe that water levels will be picked up from the texture file, unless technology makes the vertices of the road to somehow know whats the texture color over them, much more likely would be if somehow vertex colors would be used for that, and mesh painted by using the previously created puddles visual map so that visual puddles and physical places that collects more watter would match.

    Anywhay... there should be some kind of different puddles indication technology, because texture just will not do. As much as I have had experience with modeling I just can't remember a single situation when a texture controlled somethign that was physical.

    By the way to the topic, I guess she is with slicks, and thats probably how slicks perform at the first minutes of rain vs full wet tires, or perhaps even intermediates, would be interesting to know for sure. Of course the skill and pure knowledge of grip there is also very meaningful. Most drivers there simply seems to play it really safe or they don't want to overheat and ruin their rain tires.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  11. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @mantasisg I agree, it seems unlikely the graphical effect will tie in directly with the physics. There was a vague link mentioned when they were first implemented, but I don't think we've seen anything since. The puddles do appear and grow as a representation of the realroad wetness level, so it's not that they're entirely independent, but even if/when some sort of aquaplaning simulation is put in to replace the current it's-getting-very-wet-so-all-my-slick-tyres-are-rapidly-losing-grip effect there would need to be some background work to get that effect in sync with the puddles.

    Still, it's not impossible, and if they had a plan for how to do this when they put in the puddle maps we might just have to wait and see what they do.
     
  12. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    I'm not speaking about textures.
    The layer with the puddles is invisible and it's supposed to be useful for phisics.
    This is a S397 image that represent the puddles and it's depth.
    [​IMG]
    When it's raining the water remains in the track depending on that map and it'a supossed that the final target is to affect the phisics.
    (At least is what we want to think, because some work is needed to make a puddles map)
     
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  13. Gio Nuvoli

    Gio Nuvoli Registered

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    I did some rally races a lot of year ago and we raced on totally slick tires, Pirelli and Kleber for the most of the time. On a good tarmac (Sanremo for istance) a little of rain didnt affect at all the performance. With a medium soft compound the loss of grip is minimum. The only problem, the real problem is when the water is thick and the slick tyre did not drain it. Puddles, flow from high rain across tyhe road and so on became a real threat. In a second you will be out.
     
  14. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @Gio Nuvoli that's aquaplaning, which rF2 doesn't do yet. It just makes all tyres more slippery (defined in the tyres, so slick tyres can be worse than treaded tyres) when the track gets very wet.

    @lagg that is visible, isn't it? That's what generates the visible puddles. There has to be a link made between that dds (16384x16384) and the track geometry in order for that 'depth' to have an effect. That is presumably the intention.

    In practice I wonder how many people will actually appreciate aquaplaning when it's in the game. A fair proportion of players aren't actually even interested in very wet track already, because it's hard to stay on the track (bearing in mind people underestimate how slow they need to go). Instant spins with aquaplaning aren't going to be any better - and then if we still have a lack of realistic reactions like safety cars or even red flags due to atrocious weather that will only be highlighted. More work :)
     
  15. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    If people are using rF2 and not another sim/simcade, it is for a very large majority for the realism of rF2 that goes beyond all other games.

    Moreover, what interests the most, very, very, very, very far the players of rF2 is that rF2 improves primarily on the aspect "simulation/ultra realism/global realism". (that's a fact)

    If you doubt, look at the result of this poll, which I think is very well done, and whose results are eloquent :

    https://forum.studio-397.com/index....e-most-and-the-fastest-progress-on-rf2.62753/

    - More than 60% of voters voted for the overall realism (rain/aquaplaning/realistic clutch, tire model, etc etc etc) .) and there are many voters.
    - The second highest score is almost 40%, and concerns the Offline/AI.

    I therefore think, given these objective data, that at the very least 60% of rF2 users will benefit from improved rain and aquaplanning, IMO.

    This is only my opinion ;)
     
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  16. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    That poll is just this forum, it does not include the average some that are less interested, also lots of options there squeezed together.

    Yes, simracers are working against simulation innovations when it is not making handling easier, is not familiar, is not expected. I noticed that more than a year ago. But that was in AC, rf2 community is more open minded. I have made a mod for fun with puddles somewhat working and with alternative lines in fake wet track, which imo quite kicks it, no one cares. It is actually epic feel, scary but epic. Just like I had experienced it irl on highway.

    16k map for puddles? Omglol I just can't imagine how it would work. Game engine would pick data for vertex color directly from texture ?
     
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  17. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    You don't have to imagine anything. Read the modding info from the S397 site.
     
  18. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @DrivingFast You misunderstood me. We all want it, yes (you shouldn't refer to your own post/poll as 'very well done' by the way). But people generally don't enjoy losing control of their car unexpectedly, especially online where competition is more fierce.

    That's all I'm saying. Doesn't make it a bad feature, I want realism too.
     
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  19. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Remember how many people complained about flat spotting.
     
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  20. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    There is nothing written about physical meaning of these puddles there, it is all about visual stuff.

    BTW interesting that it is not 16k texture, 16k texture just for more comfortable work, then it gets downscaled to 8k or 4k, which makes sense, I am interested how Nordschleife will be made, I guess it will be splitted into few sections.
     

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