Skip Barber Going Faster

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Butch Nackley, Dec 29, 2012.

  1. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    From following the advice and practice of the Skip Barber video with a focus on consistency rather than simply trying to get the fastest lap each and every attempt, i managed to get myself to the point of achieving consistent 56 seconds flat lap times (+/- 0.1s) one after another, after another constantly. I've not used the full potential of the car in the slower corners and that's my next focus after i'm 110% satisfied with my consistency (though needs constant retraining) - after all what point is there in being occasionally fastest if you cannot consistently replicate it.

    Thanks to KeiKei for the setup. He is the fastest i have personally seen online with a 55:574 (at the last time i've seen, so probs even a bit quicker now). My fastest ever was a 55:697 but when i achieved that it was a total utter fluke (fyi like KeiKei's time it was without tow) that I since have been unsuccessful in replicating (the second closest i've been able to occasionally achieve being 2/10ths slower than that). It was done in a sort of mindless manner and my average time's (at that time) were anywhere in the ranges of 56:200 to 56:900 which is not only slower than now but was hugely sporadic in lap times and comparatively a hell of a lot less consistent.

    I wanted to share this because i find it quite an amazing discovery (at least for myself), that aiming for consistency will inherently not only gravitate you towards the art of consistency but over time as you discover how to get those extra 1%'s out of the cars potential in a systematically and non rushed manner, it will actually help you to drive faster as well! It's really been an unintentional "two birds with one stone" sequence of events for me regarding the best way to go faster. I know that the extra time will come from an array of better car control techniques in the form of smoother inputs, less steering input to steer and more throttle and braking for steering which inherently allow for higher exit speeds, etc. But that will all come in good time and I'm in no rush to get there because i know that i can and will with this approach and in fact get there sooner too, lol! :)

    I will warn people though, it really takes a lot of patience especially to begin with as at first, for the longest time, it will feel as if your wasting you time and nothing beneficial is happening. But if you give it a chance, stay focus on consistency with the order of what is taught in that video [1) The Line, 2) Car Control, 3) Braking] you will see the results that you are after. ;)

    One last time:

    Aiming for Consistency = Consistent and Faster lap times

    Yes, that wasn't a typo...

    Consistency = Consistency + Faster

    or

    1 = 1 + 1

    ^^ CRAZY LOGIC ^^

    ...but it works :/​


    edit:

    After big-ben, the remaining high speed corners were pretty much my best yet. I exited the corners with as much speed as i think (at least for now) is physically possible. The slow corners (Big-Ben and the following) are the big time losses for me but all in good time....I'm coming for you KeiKei!!! :mad: :eek: :p
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2013
  2. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    Cool. Thaks Dr.
     
  3. tjc

    tjc Registered

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    Holy crap!

    That... is... NUTS!

    Great riding, I thought the guy with the onboard cam was going insanely fast, then those other dudes went screaming past him... then he passed them back... :eek:

    :cool:
     
  4. KeiKei

    KeiKei Registered

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    Little quicker yes...

    View attachment 5484

    ...and it was without tow and probably with previous build 125 because didn't have the replay anymore.

    Oh well records are ment to be broken. :)

    EDIT: Good lines at the video but at T3 (The Left Hander) it's maybe better to make it tighter i.e. not take that far from the right or at least not that round as a whole. Also The Uphill right hander should be taken flat out (with little countersteering it's possible to go over the inside kerb). Don't know if you did but sounded like little lift there.
     
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  5. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    You is damn fast KeiKei, sorry I didn't expressly say without tow for you too (I knew it was though, sorry if it was giving a wrong impression.) Yeah, I realised when looking back at the video that the T3 left hander was so overly wide and needs to be much tighter with less emphasis on late apexing and more on carrying the speed through as the skip doesn't really have the acceleration to benefit as much. T1-2 are areas I know I can get another 2-3 tents out of if I can master even later threshold and trail braking. Uphill right hander, I think your right an that I lifted ever so slightly into the entry to help with rotation but if I remember correctly I hit 161kph (103.1 mph) at the point that the track becomes level again and I've never been able to go faster than that before. The next corner I use the passing directly under the bridge to check my exit speed and it was 165/6 kph (103.5 mph) again my very best and the final corner bk onto the straight was my all time new best leaving the left side curbing at 182kph (113.75 mph).

    I will try the apex curbing for T3 next time. Thanks for the advice. ;)
     
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  6. liebestod

    liebestod Registered

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    "Oh, cool, you're going 190 MPH? Too slow, noob *zooms past*"
     
  7. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    That was one of my fav parts damn.
     
  8. SLuisHamilton

    SLuisHamilton Banned

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    Keikei, join the drivers only server in the weekend :)
     
  9. Seahawks1Fan

    Seahawks1Fan Registered

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    I have been doing some practice around LR and am having a heck of a time keeping it from losing the back end. Any chance I could try that tune you guys are using. I think I have a good line but the default tune is horrible on this track.
     
  10. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    I'm down to sub 59s (not great) in the regional @LRP with the default setup. Seat time is more important than setup. :)
     
  11. SLuisHamilton

    SLuisHamilton Banned

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    Run Forrest, run.
     
  12. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    I run bro.
     
  13. MaxLt

    MaxLt Registered

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    That is actually pretty straight-forward - when you get consistent, you have an order of magnitude fewer things for your brain to adapt to on every lap, so it now has the spare capacity to focus on areas for improvement. imagine you are running away from something scary with your pants down - you're slow because your pants are down, but you cannot lift them up because you're too busy running. If you had a moment to lift them up, you'd get much faster right away, but it's just too scary to stop running. Being consistent gives you that breathing room to realize what's slowing you down, and that's why it's important.

    On a more practical matter - could you or Keikei share the set up you mentioned? I really want to try it. I am struggling with balancing through turns 1 & 2 in Skippy, so I want to eliminate the set up as a factor and just use a set up that I know is balanced enough (yours obviously is, based on the video). For some reason I am at least .7 seconds slower to the first time marker than you, but very close for the rest of the track. It's not a problem in other cars - I just trail brake deep past the first apex, and then accelerate once I see the second one, beating AI's times by a mile, but in Skippy I cannot even match AI in this turn - either spin out or plow :-(. I'd appreciate any pointers as well.​
     
  14. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    My quickest is a 55:670, and I think I have my consistency fairly well sorted. A 56 flat/high 55 is nice and doable. You do just get some laps that seem to be so much slower, but when you cross the line you see you've dropped .1 out of nowhere. Pushing harder with these things seems to make it very difficult to drop the times.
    Looking at Kalle's hotlap times, I'm just fractionally behind in each sector. Ends up I'm .153 behind at the line. Being that I'm slower through each sector, I'd say I have setup work to do XD

    But the fact that I was able to do 55.800's with 2 setups that were soooo different, certainly tells you that seat time is the key. I've said it before, but these setups were way different...one with .6 odd degrees of camber front and back, the other with 2.5, antiroll bars way higher on one, pressures differing by 30 kpa, ride height much higher at the front with one, etc etc. Just keeping your speed up and running a good line, seemed to make the setup have little effect.
    Granted when you are trying for each last tenth, it becomes more important, but yeah.



    @MaxLT, being that it is .7 difference in the first sector, I'd say that you haven't sorted your trail braking out. You need to use throttle while braking to keep these things balanced. Practice tickling the throttle while going in T1, see what happens :)
    It can take a while to learn and acheive some kind of feel doing it, but I reckon thats what is going to make a difference there. To be able to dive into T1 with what seems like a lot of speed.
     
  15. Novis

    Novis Registered

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    Usually I tend to know what I'm talking about... :)

    Compared to a 200hp+ bike a 250cc is slow. However, street racing on a bike is madness. Bikes are never safe.

     
  16. tjc

    tjc Registered

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    Awesome stuff...

    I mean this in a nice way, with great respect for what those guys do but they are completely mad lol...

    :cool:
     
  17. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    yh, TT is probably just slightly past the point of awesomeness and into stupidity, as it's questionable as to whether it's a calculated and uncalculated risk.

    Or in other words, that fine line between bravery and stupidity. :p
     
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  18. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    Good, which means you know that 90 hp in a 100kg bike with a 2 stroke power delivery is not to be sniffed at. Slow and safe my arse.
    Maybe you mean a 4 stroke single cylinder 250... ;)
     
  19. Novis

    Novis Registered

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    These guys are heroes, bravery beyond belief.

    While the power of a 250cc two-stroke isn't that bad, the power delivery is nothing to brag about. These engines have peaky narrow powerbands. If you listen to the 250 you hear the driver using the clutch to unload the engine, keep the revs up and the engine in the meat of the powerband. On a 1000 cc four-stroke you feather the clutch to keep the rear wheel from braking traction. That the difference between a weak and powerful engine, if you clutch to unload the engine or the rear wheel. :)

     
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  20. 88mphTim

    88mphTim I'm new here Staff Member

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    There are some layouts not yet implemented that might be added later. NASCAR used LRP in reverse, for example. We know about that, we just have to do it. ;) There's also an endurance karting track on the autocross layout.
     

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