Sim Racing servo ffb systems : OSW & Bodnar

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Adrianstealth, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    So I buy the control box and mounting kit and then I solder a 15 pin d-sub and then buy a MiGe motor and a MiGe encoder seperately?? Sounds like it will be more or less the same price.

    I sent Tomo an email asking if he has a Big MiGe so as to take advantage of the IONO Pro HC, and also if that involves a more powerful PSU as, from what I'm aware, the 600W Meanwell isn't enough to power the Big MiGe @ 30 Nm.

    I then also sent Ollie an email asking if he has the IONI Pro HC and the 5000 PPR encoder.

    I'd rather just keep it simple and get the IONI Pro non-HC and small MiGe but I really want the 5000 PPR encoder and I don't know if Ollie uses the 5000 PPR one.

    On the other hand, if I do buy from Tomo in order to get the IONI Pro HC and 5000 PPR encoder (if Ollie doesn't have 5000 PPR) then I might as-well take full advantage of the IONI Pro HC and get a Big MiGe while I'm at it. But then I think that will require a more powerful PSU (to drive BiG MiGe to 30 Nm) and I don't know if Tomo has the required PSU for that. Ahhh...


    Right when I'm finally up for order, I find out about the updated encoder resolution and the IONI Pro HC. I'm never gonna get this bloody thing, lol.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  2. cookie

    cookie Registered

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    I seriously don't think you would use more than 20 NM the small MIGE's fine. You can send the cables to Tomo to get them soldered and sent back in one package, the other thing with this kit is that it's Modular design I don't think Ollies is. The new mige comes with the 5K encoder fitted, according to his costings there would €135 saving on the €1290 kit.

    Optional: I can provide you Ioni OSW systems without Mige motor with 420e lower price since that is the amount it cost me for geting motor delivered from Lisa to my place . It will also save you additionaly around 35e of shipping cost on system delivery to your place (calculation based for EU). Just make sure that you order motor equiped with new 5000ppr encoder. Its about 20e price difference if you order it directly from Lisa. Sending Mige servo cables to me to soldier DB15 and Neutriks connectors on it is recommended –and included in reduced price.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  3. Andrew_WOT

    Andrew_WOT Registered

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    Tomo Meglic is turn key, Ollie it DIY kit.
    Have you contacted Joe Sullivan on iRacing, you can ping him on isrtv, username slingshot666, if you don't have iracing subscription.
     
  4. thenic123

    thenic123 Registered

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    Can you PM me a parts list, cookie
     
  5. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Ollie supllies the parts put together 90%, not DIY; you need to purchase a case separately though and then put the parts in there yourself.

    I think I spoke to Joe but at the time his price was quite a bit more expensive than Ollie's and Tomo's unless my memory is playing tricks on me.

    I got an email response from Tomo but unfortunately he only ships to Europe :(

    If I can't change Tomo's mind then it seems like Ollie is my only option unless I'm not remembering Joe's price correctly.
     
  6. Andrew_WOT

    Andrew_WOT Registered

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    There is 34 pages thread on iRacing covering specifics of this just "put together".
    This is pdf guide on Ollie kit build, see for yourself.
    http://www.schulzworld.com/images/iRacing/docs/steps_to_perfection.pdf
    My understanding that Ollie is quite behind with orders, I was trying to get a hold of him for a couple of months, including using Order button on his web page. Nothing back, zilch, nada. Some folks were lucky to get it from him though.
    Afraid besides putting it together yourself, Joe is the only "real" option for US folks.
    Didn't know Tomo doesn't ship overseas, that sucks, really.
     
  7. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Are you sure that PDF doesn't refer to Ollie's previous method of kits (self-assembly)? Pics of both kits --> Self-Assembly Direct Drive Wheel Kit New one --> Pre-tested Partially Assembled Direct Drive Wheel Kit

    Yes, I think Ollie is very busy. I just got a reply from him yesterday, I've been on pre-order since the first week of August.

    slingshot666 (his InsideSimRacing username) seems like an awesome, honest, and caring guy. He even took time to PM me the contact details of another person selling a wheel on another forum. I would definitely do business with him.

    Yes, it's too bad Tomo doesn't ship overseas (at-least for at the moment). It would have been nice to have the case and everything inside all neatly made but oh well.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2015
  8. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Ok guys, I just got a reply from both Tomo and Ollie regarding the IONO Pro HC, 5000 PPR encoder, and upgraded PSU (IONI Pro HC + upgraded PSU in order to drive Large MiGe to 25+ Nm):


    Tomo
    - Only providing kits to EU. Hopes is able to at the beginning of the year. I'm not sure if he meant he's busy on current orders and hopefully can start providing kits in the New Year or he'll hopefully be able to provide kits to outside of the EU as of the new year.

    - Difference between the IONI Pro HC and the IONI Pro is pretty-much only that the IONI Pro HC can handle more juice through it therefore allowing you to use a more powerful PSU.

    - Kits usually come with a 600W PSU (13A continuous) which is enough to drive the Small MiGe to it's full potential (I'm guessing "full potential" about 20 Nm).

    - If the PSU has a "share" function, like the one he provides, you can later add another PSU in parallel for 26A. For that reason, the IONO Pro HC is very important (the increased power it can handle relative to the IONI Pro).

    - Large MiGe is 30% less efficient than the Small MiGe therefore you need a 17A, 840W PSU to have identical power like the Small MiGe. So, if going with the Large MiGe, it's best to just go for a 1000W PSU from the start.

    - "Kits i am providing are complete with pc case, backpanel, connectors and tested before shipping".


    Ollie / Sim-plicity
    - 5000 PPR encoders are expected next week but his last shipments of the year will be this week. Kits will come with 5000 PPR encoders as standard on the motor as of January 4th shipments.

    - The PSP-600-48 PSU (which comes with the Small MiGe kits) outputs only 12.5A. That means the IONI Pro HC is useless and provides no extra value if using a Small MiGe since even the IONI can power the Small MiGe to it's full potential, let alone the IONI Pro (but the IONI Pro is used because of upgraded features compared to the IONI).

    - IONI Pro HC only drives Large MiGe to 25.7 Nm (as opposed to 30 Nm) and that also requires a PSU with an output current capability of 18A.

    - If a buyer decides to go with the Large MiGe + IONI Pro HC combo from Ollie, there's a PSU Ollie intends on specifying with that combination. He currently only has 1 unit for his beta testing but more are expected to arrive the 2nd week of January.



    How much more the IONI Pro HC + upgraded PSU will cost (I sent Ollie a reply asking this)
    - Large MiGe costs £45.83 more than Small MiGe (Sim-plicity website)
    - IONI Pro HC costs €20.00 more than IONI Pro (Granite Devices website)
    - PSU upgrade cost???

    It sounds like the price for the Large MiGe + IONI Pro HC + upgraded PSU (I'm calling this the "Large Kit"), relatively speaking, isn't going to be much more than the Small MiGe + IONI Pro + standard PSU ("Small Kit") unless the upgraded PSU costs a huge chunk more than the standard PSU. So I'm figuring, "hey, why not?" :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2015
  9. mimeitakashi

    mimeitakashi Registered

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  10. thenic123

    thenic123 Registered

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    I've bought all the parts for an OSW build but I still need to buy a case. I have bought the Antek 600w power supply so I need a case to fit it in plus the Ioni board. The power supply is 230mm x 165mm in size. I have narrowed it down to the Antec ISK600, CoolerMaster-Elite 130 and Fractal design core 500. I want to buy a case around the $100aud mark.?
     
  11. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Which parts did you select for your OSW and which Antek 600W are you using?
     
  12. thenic123

    thenic123 Registered

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    I bought the ps-6n50n24. Ioni 1x cube, pro hc, neutrik connectors, and same parts that are used for the ioni build.
     
  13. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Thx.....and which mige?
     
  14. thenic123

    thenic123 Registered

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    Small
     
  15. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    So you're planning to go up to 26Nm?
     
  16. thenic123

    thenic123 Registered

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    Can the "small" mige go to 26nm? I thought it was only peak at 20nm. Maybe down the track i might go bigger...
     
  17. metalnwood

    metalnwood Registered

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    20Nm for the small one. I cant remember anyone other than perhaps one person who set it past that. Large Mige if you want more than 20.
     
  18. thenic123

    thenic123 Registered

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    I thought so too.

    No one answered my question: I need to buy a mini-its case for the OSW. The Antek power supply is 230mm x 165mm in size. I'm going the Ioni 1x cube. I have narrowed it down to the Antec ISK600, CoolerMaster-Elite 130 and Fractal design core 500. I want to buy a case around the $100aud mark. What do you all recommend ?
     
  19. metalnwood

    metalnwood Registered

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    Are you on iracing? If not I will nip over and see what the aussies are using for their ioni builds.
     
  20. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    I asked if you were planning to go up to 26Nm because that is what you're proposed system can easily output in current to achieve (but whether the small mige can handle it in practice though is a different matter). Firstly, you're chosen PSU can output up to 12A continuously which if used equals 26.4Nm of torque output from the small mige (assuming 100% efficiency). For 20Nm peak you only need up to 9-9.5A continuous output at most. Secondly, you're using the IONI HC Pro which is serious overkill for a small mige. HC Pro is rated up to 25A (peak of sine) which equates to being able to handle up to 17.7A (rms) continuous DC output from a power supply. So if you're only safe to go up to 20Nm with the small mige, then you're only going to use up to half the full capacity/capability of the HC Pro.

    The HC Pro is only required if you plan on going with the large mige in which case it can power the large mige up to 28Nm (again assuming 100% efficiency). Ofc the large mige will be much better able to handle such a large torque for longer because it's rated peak torque is 30Nm vs the small miges 20Nm.

    Manufactures provide continuous and peak torque ratings so that user does not exceed the motors rated operating temperature set by the manufacturer (above which and beyond will start to shorten the motor's life expectancy proposed/promised by the manufacturer). Peak torque rating is not a physical limit of the motor. So if a motors peak rated torque is 20Nm, you can go above it by simply providing more current. The issue is simply temperature.

    An easier way to know if a certain motor will be able to comfortably handle a certain max torque for use in sim racing is to know if the average torque output over time will stay at or below the continuous torque rating of the motor. Continuous torque ratings are the amount of torque the motor can output indefinitely without exceeding operating temperature limits so it will produce life expectancies promised by the manufacturer. (but take into account the fact that these numbers are for industrial in mind....where they have already lengthy life expectancies in continuous harsh conditions so imagine its life expectancy for periodic sim racing use.)

    If you have some sort of telemtry software for your sim of choice that you can use to record ffb output over time, if you work out what you average ffb output is over say 30 seconds in the most ffb intensive areas of a drive in the sim, then take the motors continuous torque rating and divide it by the average ffb output, you will get out a peak torque that the motor should be able to more than safely produce.

    So for example, if say you worked out your average ffb output and it turned out to be 40% (which equals "0.4" as a decimal) and you're motor's continuous torque rating is 10Nm, then 10Nm/0.4 = 25Nm. So then you should be able to use up to 25Nm as your peak without issue.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2016

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