Sense of Speed

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jason Mullin, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. KRO

    KRO Registered

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    Hi, i m new here, and for the sense of speed, for me, is not only a FOV problem.

    Look at the differents of speed on the white line of the road on IRL cam VS simulation, it's clearly not the same when you are at 200Km/h..
    the future will be better road definition like on sebring.
    Sorry for my poor english.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  2. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    Triple screen fixes this issue. Even low fov with a more realistic size of the sim world and lower speed sensation on the middle screen the side screens make up for it and the world zoom by fast there and give you a more correct and faster sense of speed. The extra monitors arent so expensive but the power to drive them is - unless you already have the juice of course.
     
  3. Nielsen

    Nielsen Registered

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    I know VR is not the subject in this thread but it looks like currently there is actually a brand of very exciting VR goggles (Pimax) that has a horizontal FOV of 180-200.
    They have just started to ship their socalled 5K+ model to pre-orders.
     
  4. MartyB

    MartyB Registered

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    I know it divides opinion but, add some head physics as well for extra immersion / sense of speed. I race purely vr so not sure how well the effect translates to a pancake setup
     
  5. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I find sense of speed very good in rF2, I don't know exactly how many settings there are, I remember I have about 60 vertical FOV in graphical settings, I also like to slide my seat back a bit.
     
  6. DreamsKnight

    DreamsKnight Registered

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    1) proper monitor position. next to the wheel and not far, like i usually see.
    1bis) large monitors or triple are better. if you have a 22", you have the wrong object.
    2) your eyes must at the 60% of the height of the screen. if you can't, point 4 help a lot.
    3) calculate a proper fov. the fov is a scientific calculation, not a value determined by sensation, like i usually read.
    4) adjust the pitch, the forgotten value.

    a right monitor position + a right fov + a right pitch, all together, give the best (and the real) sense of speed.

    here the best guide in the world, and in a better english than mine. :D
    https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/fov-best-inmersion-in-our-cockpit.5962/
     
  7. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    If you have single screen, and it is not huge as mentioned 22", it might not be best practice to use mathematically correct FOV. Because if you see little of car sides, then you may have problems detecting yaw agnles and will criple mentioned sense of speed, also it will hurt spatial awarness.

    The more info you'll have in your peripheral vision, the more sense of motion you'll get. Thats also why you should have screen next after your steering wheel motor.

    OP has mentioned some stretching, I haven't ever tested a lot of FOV settings in rF2, but it looks like there is something clever with compensating "tunnel vision". With my FOV it looks like the view only around edges is stretched a little, and around center it is normal, like some sort of vertical only fish eye lens.
     
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  8. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @mantasisg I can't see anyone mentioning stretching, but there's nothing clever going on. A higher-than-realistic FOV will always introduce some apparent stretching, and it increases the further from centre you go.

    I highly highly highly recommend using real FOV, and getting a screen (or screens) big enough and close enough to do it and still see where you're going. There really isn't anything like seeing things in real size, and hills and corners with their proper dimensions make you appreciate the performance of the cars you're driving. (you honestly can't believe you're about to go around that corner you're approaching [even if you've done it thousands of time in the past with higher FOV] but you throw it in there and it sticks - that's a real sense of speed)

    But 'sense of speed' down the straights will always be higher with a higher FOV; if you're targeting that, you need to make a conscious decision between realistic or 'arcade fast'.
     
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  9. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    I cant agree with this. With higher FOV it is harder to detect yaw rotation. Peripheral vision is not needed to catch oversteer.
    About spatial awareness of course higher FOV helps.
    Sadly with smaller single screen one has to decide which compromise to make.
     
  10. zaphman

    zaphman Registered

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    As we say. There is only one real FOV. This gives us the illusion of blending the virtual world with the real one. Things are scaled correctly as you would experience them in real life. Things are neither seen through a binocular (FOV too small) nor an opposite binocular (FOV to big). Here we get into the zone where everything aligns the way it should - driving a real car - in the real world. Problem though, moving your head towards the screen should actually recalculate the FOV... beyond what a static FOV can achieve. But VR.... But speed sensation... Well... this needs some thoughts. A narrow track, where items beside of you flashes by, gives a more speed sensation than a track with large areas of run off areas. All of this requires perifeeral vission - only possible with triple screen (or VR)
     
  11. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Good that you mention VR, because only VR gives correct results because of it's true depth perception. Peripheral vision is still very important.

    Nice if some simracers find mathematically correct FOV better, but I just can not see how it can be better without tripple screen or a very huge single screen. There really are two realistic FOV's, one for peripheral vision, and other for central vision. Obviously mathematical one is much more logical choice, but usually you should always try to get decent amount of peripheral vision in the picture which you look at in the screen.

    One more thing is seat position further back seat can give enough peripheral vision, without actually "ruining" the FOV, because you may also pretend that you didn't pull your seat back, but you got closer to the screen yourself, which is not true actually, but it doesn't matter because perspective in the picture doesn't change as you get closer or further from it and screen is essentially a picture.

    Peripheral vision is overall the most responsible in detecting motion, not only sense of speed, but also sense of turning, sense of yaw rotation. What is seen in peripheral vision is acquired by brain super fast subconsciously. So IMO it is very important to have proper peripheral vision "data", personally I can't even drive very twitchy cars with "realistic" fov, I just keep spinning out, not enough references.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
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  12. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    Finally someone that think outside the box related to the "mathemathically correct fov". You should take some of this aspects in consideration, to get better "translation " about what happens in reallife or vr to get better immersion in most common setups (triples or single screens )
     
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  13. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I wouldn't try to run real FOV on a 22" screen. I gave it a go and I couldn't see around me at all. It was also making me feel a bit dizzy, I was viewing the world through a tube.

    However, 27" quite close with correct FOV (28° vertical in my case) I found quite good except in sharp corners, purely because I couldn't see the apex. I definitely felt like I could 'see' yaw accelerations better, and I can only explain that as the overall horizontal movement of the car was physically faster across the screen because I was 'zoomed in'. Before I really tried it (properly, for hours) I thought there might be so much movement it would mask the 'extra' movement of the back end sliding etc, but in practice I found it worked well. Having said that, for a single screen I'd look for at least 32" just so you can see a bit more around you. 40+ would be ideal. (would the extra peripheral you gain, on top of the exact same central image you already had [both setups correct FOV] give you more cues? I suppose it might)

    @Louis Plenty of people, us, me included, don't run around saying "correct FOV or die!". When you enter a discussion about true FOV and suggest it can't be done properly on screens, you will (and did) get an argument, but ultimately people should use whatever they're comfortable with on their setup. I just think real FOV is well worth trying to achieve.
     
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  14. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    That scientific calculation didn't work for me, I have a 24 inch monitor and was suggested an FoV of 23 that resulted in a seriously distorted image.
    I was seeing about half of what I needed to see on the screen to make a corner.
    So I've set it myself and if I want a better sense of immersion I know I need a bigger screen.
     
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  15. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    If you got distorted image than you calculated it wrong.
     
  16. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    If I were calculating on my own there would be no need for an online calculator?
     
  17. mesfigas

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    For 24 inch monitor i suggest something like 33 FOV
    or 28 which i like a lot but i cannot see the apex sometimes so i switched to 33 which is safer to my eyes while cornering.
     
  18. Alex72

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    When i was on single 24 inch i used between 40-50 fov. Again just a matter of what feels/works best for you. Stepping up to triple blows you away though. Rf2 need a lot of juice but when i did my step up i drove AC and AMS and those titles was still running at 60fps with triples so the cost was not high. 2 cheapo monitors cost me about 250 euro (was also on sale). With rf2 if you already have a beefy pc - do it. Get 2 more monitors. Set them right behind your wheel. Angle the side monitors so they cover your 180 degree peripheral view and feel the massive difference. Like being inside the cars outside of VR. :)
     
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  19. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    What I meant was you entered wrong parameters.
    Distorted image you get if FOV is too high.
    If FOV is too low than image is zoomed in.
    What FOV are you using now instead of calculated 23?
     
  20. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Anything other than the correct FOV is distorted in one way or the other, but I think @christos_Swc was just referring to the limited view with correct FOV on a relatively small screen. Like running around looking through a postage tube, the FOV is correct but you see so little you can't really tell where you're going.
     

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