S397... how does it feel to not even be included?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MotherDawg, Jun 6, 2021.

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  1. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    You should try it :D
     
  2. Ef123

    Ef123 Registered

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    I've had RF2 since like 5 years :eek:
     
  3. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    You miss the point that Alonso was an MG shareholder before rF2 came into play. Drivers, sponsors, teams, track organisations etc. get money from publishers so that they appear in games. That's called lisencing. And they certainly have the interest that the product that they stick their name on excells so they won't tell how they really feel about it. How hard is that to understand?

    Anyway, your problem lies somewhere else. Maybe a bad day? You seem to be implying that everyone here is hating on AC or ACC and you couldn't be further off the mark. It's also not really connected to what the OP talked about. You turn this into a sh*t slinging fest for no apparent reason and it would be clever to use a mirror and check if rF2 users are doing the same on the Kunos forum. You said, that there nobody talks about rF2 so I think you answered that allready. I don't join the Justin Biber fan club forum and talk about how I like Slayer and how much better they are. :rolleyes:

    Maybe do what a sane person would do: get back to the Kunos forums and talk with your likeminded "circlejerk" how great AC or ACC is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
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  4. Ef123

    Ef123 Registered

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    Earliest news of Alonso investing in MG is from 2019. So what even is your point?

    You have literally no clue how any of that works. Maybe their rights belong to F1 as F1 drivers, maybe they get paid, maybe they don't. You're making all those assumptions cause you think it somehow remotely supports your point. Which is non-existent other than "rf2 best"

    Read the thread again from top to bottom, see who starts talking about AC. You wouldn't go to AC forum, because they don't care about RF2, they don't even talk about RF2 like you care about AC and keep talking about it here. The difference is people are there to drive, you are here to theorise and hypothetize about why RF2 is "best4evar". And you just wanna hear and confirm this in your circlejerk. Once a guy who is tired of this shit comes up and slaps you with this fact, fanboys get all triggered which is pretty funny.

    I remember your typical posts from 5 years ago, same old same for 5 years. Amazing what people devote their lives on. Lol
     
  5. JamesB

    JamesB Registered

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    He did this with another thread as well, an I have read this stuff again and it's the same regurgitation of rubbish about people AC or ACC knocking. But all he wants to do is knock RF2. If others want to say they don't like AC or ACC that's up to them. But the complaining about that happening whilst at the same time winging about RF2 is some of the worst double standards I have seen. I HAVE AC and I like it, but not for everything. So sorry but you are going to have to come to terms with that.

    Your continuous diatribe about people in your opinion not appreciating the apparently obvious superiority of AC or ACC smacks of fanboyism which is allegedly what you despise about these forums that you are on constantly lately, again, double standards.......

    You come across as exactly what you despise.....

    Hypocrisy
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
  6. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    "Facts" ... the fact that a guy on the interwebz who generaly likes AC and ACC reviewed a piece of hardware without using AC, AMS1, AMS2, rF2 or iRacing while asking S397 if they feel sorry about it? I am sorry this isn't a fact but some very wild interpretation of what has actually happened. If you can't separate between opinions, interpretations and facts then no argument in the world will help you.

    What's even your point? That all of a sudden all the AC and ACC haters in this forum - and there are hundreds of them :rolleyes: - suddenly start to hate rF2 and embrace the beauty and superiority of Kunos products? I got to dissapoint you but Kunos had several years time and we are still racing rF2 besides many other titles. Next thing you will do is to call us all racists, because Kunos is an Italian developer and S397 from the Netherlands.

    That you bring it down to a personal level just shows that you run out of arguments. Have a nice evening and enjoy what you like :)
     
  7. juninho tilambucano

    juninho tilambucano Registered

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    you guys care too much about what other people think, i dont give a single shit about what those youtubers drive, theres not any other game that comes close to the driving feeling of rF2, but you are welcome to disagree and enjoy other games because i also dont give a shit about what you are driving as well and also you guys should do it. if you guys dont like the game just dont play it but don't think the usual playerbase will get triggered or anything like that because a youtubers dont play a game.
     
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  8. billyblaze

    billyblaze Registered

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    Some people are so busy over-analyzing everything that they forget to have any fun (ffs). I think a lot of guys become so bored or jaded by the overwhelming amount of hardware and software choices we have now, (more announced everyday) that all they can think of to do is come to the forums and argue about nothing.
     
  9. FAlonso

    FAlonso Registered

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    What I mean is that in the GT3 due to its aerodynamics and driving aids it is not "characterized" by a correction driving to control oversteer.

    A Gt3 car in any simulator does not represent great difficulty when driving it, this is what makes it so popular.
     
  10. prceurope

    prceurope Registered

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    Fer, escuchame...

    If the rear end of your GT3 is not trying to step out on you several times a lap, you are not going fast enough.

    If you drive GT3s in any proper sim, and you are close to the lap record, the car will not be that easy to drive because it will be in a loose setup. Very few race cars "represent great difficulty when driving" for obvious reasons. That doesn't mean GT3s are easy to drive fast. Do consistent 7:59 on the Nurburgring 24h track in rF2 and you may find them easy compared to a vintage or Group C.

    99.9% of the time that the rear of a GT3 steps out, it requires a corrective input in the form of countersteer (aka opposite lock). The only exception would be a victory doughnut or a deliberate spin to get the car facing the right way after another spin, or the very rare occasion where braking alone and road camber brought the rear end back without any correction.

    Driving aids prevent traction loss that would occur with poor throttle management and over-applying brake pressure. You steer a car as much with the throttle and brake as you do with the steering wheel. Oversteer is corrected by combinations of steer, brake and throttle, but steering reactions are critical, even on relatively flat tracks:



    If you are setting lap records without any loss of rear traction, you may be playing Gran Turismo.
     
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  11. prceurope

    prceurope Registered

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    This is a great article and website in general. They even go through the histories of the sims. Not many Liverpool fans know that John Henry is not only a race car nut, he's a co-founder of iRacing.

    Back OT: S397 should absolutely care about not being included in "influencer" videos. I don't know much about MG but I doubt they got into this on pure faith alone.
     
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  12. Sim_Player

    Sim_Player Registered

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    new formula car might bring RF2 in more spotlight, hopefully it isn't a fantasy one :).
     
  13. FAlonso

    FAlonso Registered

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    You are being very simple, not everything is white nor all black, there is gray.

    I can put a video without corrections or with very few corrections, here I put a very quick tour:



    more current:



    There are many factors that determine the behavior of the car, aerodynamic configuration, compound of the tire, condition of the tire, temperature of the tire, temperature of the track ... to put some of them.

    You are comparing a real video with your driving in rFactor 2, which only simulates 29 ° C of track, there are no defects in the tires and always works at minimum pressure.

    Real is neither ACC nor rF2, we each have a different feeling and this feeling leads us to choose one or the other.

    There is no absolute truth, enjoy your real simulator, but please do not claim that the competition is not real.
     
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  14. prceurope

    prceurope Registered

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    First video is full of small corrections - it does not help your case.

    Second video is the AMG which is notoriously easy to drive IRL compared to other GT3s. The guy does a 1:59.7 which would have put him 14th on the GT World grid in 2019. Ask him to find an entire extra second (aka put the car on the limit) and you might notice a few things change, especially when the car is not going in a straight line. ;)

    Neither ACC nor rF2 are real, we can agree on that. ACC is far more similar to video #2 but the ACC guys like Tortellini are pulling 1:56s.

    You'll never be convinced - you are part of the ACC religion and that's fine. I'll repeat the David Pittard quote, "ACC is between sim and arcade."

    You can disagree with him as well, all you like. :D
     
  15. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    This is interesting conversation about driving on the limits.

    My take on this would be that if you don't see driver really working the car with steering and pedals very actively, he is not driving at his absolute maximum, thats in real life. Cars will either understeer, oversteer, or ideally - neutral steer when being driven at and slightly above their absolute limits. However, there are exceptions with some drivers who has extreme skill and exceptional smoothness to keep the car away from being over the limits completely, and keeping that car right at or slightly under the limit consistently and still being very fast. But that surely is super difficult. Worth to mention that these modern racecars run with decent levels of traction control and other assists, they are electronically heavily cushioned from pushing the car over the limit if drivers have any sufficient skill to begin with. More often than not, very smooth driving means that driver is just not pushing the maximum.

    In simulations this depends heavily on how difficult/easy developers perceive reality, which is usually mostly influenced what people are buying as realistic. I was incredibly fascinated by car handling in very first ACC release after the hotfix. Driving smooth was rewarding and extremely difficult, but being able to tame the car while overdriving it a bit was rewarding too and was a great sport. However people were not happy, and devs reoriented their handling aim to be less sharp and more forgiving. iRacing has notoriously sharp physics, cars/tires are so sharp you are pretty much obliged to drive smoothly never over the limit, and somehow people put up with that, perhaps because they use subscription model and people stick to content much longer time, which makes sense to spend to reach mastery, while in DLC people are shifting their focus from one thing to another very rapidly and want to excel quicker. I am personally a fan of most cars that were made by ISI for rF2, such as Camaro GT3 just to make comparison with S397 GT3, which are also less sharp and more forgiving for overdriving, and by now, notoriously also, known as you have to abuse them to be fast, and you can abuse them with smooth inputs which is just not right.

    These things are also reflected by learning curve, or performance curve of the drivers. You can notice when physics are really sharp just as in iR, difficulty rises fast long before getting anywhere near top laptimes. When sharpness of physics gets reduced and forgiveness increased top laptimes vs intermediate laptimes gets closer together, it is like communism lol You feel more equal then, but it is just an illusion. Also when the sharpness is higher you can observe how it gets difficult fast, but you can still keep on improving by seconds. When physics are more forgiving, usually you improve fast and then suddenly bonk into the wall of much more clear separation between you, and those who has what it takes.
     
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  16. prceurope

    prceurope Registered

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    Well said.

    The driver in video #2 above (AMG) is Martin Konrad - an AM who for sure is decent but he's not Maro Engel or Raffaele Marciello. He is not in the category of exceptional smoothness and still insanely quick.

    GT3s do have TC (some have TC-C and TC-R) and ABS available - although most of the top pros run either or both low (or off) depending on the situation. GT3 drivers who do double duty in GTEs and prototypes turn ABS off so they don't form the muscle memory of smashing the brake through the firewall. Acura did a feature on this when swapping around their GTD and DPi drivers.

    Super important observation. I got ACC in early access and after the famous mob-pleaser patch, I started to lose interest.

    You've nailed the ACC issue. It's more forgiving but the separation between the aliens and the pack is notable, whereas within the pack you get huge numbers of people within 0.250s of each other.

    Just look at Jardier trying to qualify for the Lambo event. He's 0.5s per lap off the top pace at Monza and he's top-20. Once you go past #51, the separators quickly get into the thousandths of a second.
     
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  17. turtleCZ

    turtleCZ Registered

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    I started with sim racing recently and tried everything. After playing rF2 it's not possible to go anywhere else and have the same driving enjoyment. I don't know if game is real or not but has something what others don't.

    I wouldn't care about YT at all. The whole system is based on popularity and rF2 doesn't look like it needs to be popular. Quality is always for small amount of people who can appreciate it. It's the opposite system of today's marketing. I am not saying it's always bad to be popular but it brings people you probably don't want. Like ACC needed to tune their physics, like you wrote.

    If anybody care about "influencers", there are probably better choices to play for him.
     
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  18. Ef123

    Ef123 Registered

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    Not really, you're making all that up in your imagination cause you didn't hear from myself "omg rf2 best physics 4evar" rather you heard something along the lines of "Why do you need to bash AC or whatever other high level sim to feel good about playing RF2?"

    If I kept saying RF2 best 4evar you'd love my comments. Facts.
     
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