S397... how does it feel to not even be included?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MotherDawg, Jun 6, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,797
    Likes Received:
    1,744
    I'll be streaming the touring car league I'm in. But then- My audience is completely ignorant to sim racing so that's in my favour. They just wanna watch touring cars.

    But then, my audience is a bit more 'mature' and chill and don't really care for shiny graphics. They just wanna see punting in touring cars.
     
    Matías Corvino likes this.
  2. Ef123

    Ef123 Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    25
    You don't know what you're talking about. I know it makes you feel "better" about your favorite sim when you talk about how "great" it is in your circlejerk and how "bad" other sims are, yet there's no such thing as "AC doesn't have good tyre lateral slip simulation". You don't know how these cars handle, and you pick the optimum track grip with warmed up tyres and expect to slide etc. Or in a completely crooked point of view, you take what you get in RF2 as base realism, and expect other sims to imitate that.

    Here's your "lateral slip at high speed":
     
    FAlonso and AMillward like this.
  3. JamesB

    JamesB Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2020
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    147
    Not again.......
     
  4. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,797
    Likes Received:
    1,744
    I mean, with the amount of drift mods and huge touge communities, that’s tell you enough about slip angles on AC
     
    Ef123 likes this.
  5. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    367
    Let's face it, the average Joe Blow is pretty shallow and superficial when it comes to most things, not to mention they have a short attention span. Just look at what has happened to movies in the last 20 years, all the deep substance and intricate story telling is gone, replaced by endless obnoxious and over the top effects in super hero movies made for man children. I would probably be such a Joe Blow in a different area that is not my hobby, so I'm not trying to have a go at people.

    The average person just sees the pretty graphics and will watch the video. If the video visually looks bad they won't bother. Just look at Neils channel, phenomenal information and really nice driving and hugely entertaining, but the channel lacks the glitzy production value, and Niels dosn't address the audience like they are 12 year olds with no attention spans with some rubbish fake voice.

    Most people just won't bother with something that dosn't look ultra slick, wether it be a Youtube video or a game, so creators are just catering to the market.
     
    Sim_Player likes this.
  6. prceurope

    prceurope Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2020
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    121
    Picks a vintage car with treaded, narrow tyres, minimal contact patch, no power steering, no downforce, manual box. :rolleyes:

    I do not see where you conclude this. You can slide cars in ACC in a variety of track conditions - what you cannot do is understand what is happening during that slide. What you do not experience are the minute changes in car attitude that require real-life drivers to constantly correct with rapid wheel movements, which also happen to be both physically and mentally exhausting (along with hammering the 80+ kg brake pedal over and over).

    The vast majority of ACC on-boards (not replays) show smooth steering inputs, which tells you pretty much everything you need to know. The faster drivers (Niels Naujoks, Tortellini) tend to have more hand movements than most, but it's just not necessary in ACC to micro-correct because the cars do not behave like their real-life counterparts.

    Here's a question I ask to ACC-is-the-greatest-rF2-is-broken fanbois: has your GT3 ever twitched, squirmed or got out of shape under heavy straight-line braking in ACC? They cannot ever remember it. If you go to Monza in real life and you hit the little bumps going into T1, under straight-line braking, the car starts to squirm side to side.

    Yes, this rF2 vs ACC topic has been addressed ad nauseam. The bottom line is this: if you have ever driven a GT or ST/Cup car in real life, and you are not under contract to say nice things about SRO and Digital Bros (Kunos), you know what they feel like and you know which sim title, with a proper DD wheel and motion rig, gets you closer to that real life experience. If you enjoy the overall ACC experience more, yay. If you're an "influencer," just be intellectually honest about your own motivations and recognize that you are curtailing the earning potential of human beings who work hard to improve their game every day, and by extension, you are curtailing the enjoyment that the rF2 gamer community experiences.

    So, we are absolutely justified in "sticking up for" our preferred title, whether we do it diplomatically or otherwise.
     
    Pawel44, atomed and Sim_Player like this.
  7. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    693
    You are entitled to voice your concerns but people don't have to agree with you.
    Simpit has always been in the main an advertorial for iRacing. He avoids RF2 with great energy. Even in one of the most amazing moments in RF2 when 20,000,000 watched the LeMans 24 hrs virtual he couldn't bring himself to say something positive. When the world's top IRL drivers drove in The Race championship he treated it as an invasion of "fair weather friends". I wrote to Shaun (with whom I have worked with on a couple of projects) and complained. Then on air he stated Simpit News wasn't a news show. My conclusion; he is biased.

    Jimmer has covered RF2 content in recent times but you need to understand that Jimmer has core products and most of the time he is appealing to the mass market. Grand Tourismo, Codies F1.

    Ermin who you don't mention is IMO part pop psychologist and part shock jock and I don't watch him.

    Some of these guys aren't reliable.

    So I don't share your concern.
    That doesnt mean I am denigrating anyone.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
    MotherDawg, atomed and mesfigas like this.
  8. Sim_Player

    Sim_Player Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2021
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    205
    I take what i see IRL as base and so far only rf2 came close.
    Good video about sliding on car that basically has no grip , no aero and more power than tyre can handle :)

    Anyways i'm done with this topic as this is not a physics thread.
     
    mesfigas likes this.
  9. Ef123

    Ef123 Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    25
    That's how lateral slip at high speed works. No grip, power, and aero being overpowered. I can't bother to pick another car just to "prove" RF2 fanboy something, you can write under every single RF2 thread about how rf2 great physics 4eva and AC "bad" to feel good.

    Read above.

    ---------

    Essence of people like these, who keeps writing walls and walls of text:

    RF2 has best physics 4evar. That's why everytime I drive it, I doubt myself and come here. Have a quick talk about how "great" rf2 physics are in our circle, and I feel a lot better.

    When I get those deep issues RF2 "great physics" have, just couple of them being "hack setups", or excessively using throttle to turn the car, as we just often do in real life, or every car feeling basically the same way, I raise these issues. I speak them out loud!! But it's all good, because we all know we still lowkey whisper to each other 'don't worry mates, read between the lines, rf2 physics best4eva!1!'

    We also love games like ams1 and rf1, because they are not a "threat" as they are the little isi 2.0 brothers of rf2. But dayum we hate AC, we hate ACC, we hate IRacing. We hate when we drive them and realize that they are just simply superior. I drove in changing conditions in ACC last night. It was so unbelievably amazing, I hated ACC. Dayum I hated ACC for being this good. How can they do this y'know?? I went straight to RF2 for that same changing conditions. Amazing realism you know? And I again doubted myself.. Though I came here for a relief, it was tough man..

    If someone, and even if that someone is a guy who drives the actual car comes up and says "That car's not right", we either blame him, blame his setup, blame his wheel, blame the car itself, blame the temps etc. But neva the 4eva great physics of RealismFactor2. Look, it has R even in the name. It's real REALIST PHYSICS BROOO :eek:
     
  10. SuperMonaco_GP

    SuperMonaco_GP Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    50
    that's quite a bold statement.
     
  11. prceurope

    prceurope Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2020
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    121
    What language is this graffitied wall of text in? In any case, gladly set to "ignore." Bye.
     
  12. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,372
    Likes Received:
    3,234
    @SuperMonaco_GP But it is true. And it is not FFB. It is physics portion which comes out as FFB. That is basically whole of the physics - tires, geometry, aerodynamics and so on.... it all translates into definition of force feedback. I personally don't like this saying that "rF2 has great FFB", and overall trend in simracing downgrading any titles physics into "FFB" category. No it is not FFB, it is physics. Also FFB is nothing without perceiving car visually and audibly as you drive it, FFB just completes the whole set which is governed by the physics.

    I can not imagine FFB specific code being anything that much big that it would drastically change car feel, it is physics that does that. One good example was ACC early release. AC people went mad for "changed FFB", while Stefano has told that nothing about FFB had been changed - instead physics advanced. However, they listened to fans and backed it all up more towards AC feel by "improving" physics.

    Some weeks ago, I have had a little deal to test some hardware, a DD wheel being in development. At first I was enjoying AC, but then switching to rF2 provided entirely different definition of steering feel. Simply extremely natural feel. Testing a gear, and not using rF2 is just showing disregard to the very essence of simulation, or perhaps just ignorance. But the most likely, first of all, it is a chase of what is popular, if rF2 doubles or triples its numbers of average players, then all the influencers would remember it.

    I have spent quite some time modding physics in rF2 in past years. The definition that rF2 core physics provides can be altered in many different forms regarding how you build your cars physics parameters sets, and especially some particular parameters. If I want, I can make steering feel a lot more like in AC, or like in iRacing, or pursue it to feel more like in real life. And as I said before, we don't perceive just FFB isolated, we perceive whole set of things that car is doing which is governed by physics, and for some reason in simracing it has been credited to FFB, I guess thats good for those who sell FFB wheels.
     
  13. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,797
    Likes Received:
    1,744
    Also "This car drives like learning to ice skate while wearing a blindfold, but it must be perfect cos muh real data!
     
    TheMenace and Ef123 like this.
  14. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2016
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    2,075
    Very interesting post. Wich brings me back to an issue I had with AMS2 the last couple of days after the last update was released. I forgot to delete the FFB and setup folders wich made the DPi undrivable for me. And it wasn't just due to the FFB but everything in the game feeling out of sync. And that's exactly where rF2 excells. It does neither have the best graphics, nor sounds, nor physics per se as that's a very complex and wide area but it is very good at bringing everything together and synching the whole driving experience. That's called fidelity. Let's be honest, none of us would be driving rF2 if it had the same fidelity like AC. The moment when you drive the Big Bend at Sebring with the surface changing from concrete to tarmac and you feel it in the FFB but not with a little click or jolt in the wheel but in a dynamic way. Or the moment when you hit a curb at historic Monaco and you feel the tire sidewall flexing and scrubbing along the sidewalk ... and all of that with a toy wheel like the DFGT. This is all the result of the tire model, suspension design and physics model running with a very high refreshrate. AC has certainly areas where it is much better, like the drive train model with clutch damage, the hybrid implementation or the influence of track temperatures. On ther other hand it is lacking in alot of other areas with zero influence of radiators for engine or brake cooling.
     
  15. Comante

    Comante Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    918
    There is a time in life where social acceptation is of paramount importance to us, it shape who we think we are, how we think and what we believe, it work both if we are socially accepted or if we are (or think we are) outcasts. I believe I was in the second group, and in answer refused to blindly follow the masses. I tried to form my ideas and follow them despite the consensus.
    Now this story has little bearing with the topic, but I don't care how many players use RF2 or how many videos portray it, all I know is that playing RF2 make me feel nice and happy, I enjoy it, I don't know why, but it simply tick a box for me.
    All the rest is just chit chat. I will keep playing RF2 until this box is ticked in my agenda.
     
  16. Comante

    Comante Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    918
    Beside this, I don't know what game is portrayed at the beginning of the video, but what I noticed is the tremendous input lag it had.
     
  17. FAlonso

    FAlonso Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    74


    In RF2 it is not necessary to micro-correct either, it is not a big difference in this aspect.

    I think you are wrong looking for the enemy, ACC is the example to follow. Kunos has developed a completely new game in the same time that S397 has created an alpha interface, ACC has won the admiration of professional players and drivers, Kunos has done a good job. ACC is possibly the most solid set of all, good physics and ffb, good sounds, good graphics, good online, good AI, good weather, very detailed content ...

    Instead of looking for ACC problems it would be better for you to look at the rF2 problems and why it is no longer a reference.
     
  18. Ef123

    Ef123 Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    25
    Real footage in that clip looks pretty much like ACC, I am actually impressed. You have small corrections at low speed, playing with the rear slightly to get the car to turn, but very rarely at high speed with GT3s. High speed corrections in a GT3 under nominal conditions would be like high speed corrections in F1. GT3's also generate quite a bit of DF so any kind of exaggerated yaw at high speed would mess all the DF levels up. So the thing they try to call "foul" with ACC doesn't even exist.
     
  19. prceurope

    prceurope Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2020
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    121
    It would really help if you showed live capture instead of interpolated replay capture.

    Also, FFB can be tuned to remove a significant amount of wheel movement.

    Regarding the ACC "enemy" - please do not twist my words into false hyperbole. My issue is with the influencers who believe it is the pinnacle of realism. Read my words carefully before levelling accusations, please.
     
    Nieubermesch and atomed like this.
  20. SuperMonaco_GP

    SuperMonaco_GP Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    50
    I assume you are a IRL GT3 driver, that would be the only way to know how such cars behave in real life.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page