S397... how does it feel to not even be included?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MotherDawg, Jun 6, 2021.

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  1. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    it’s cheaper than advertising on television and can get out to a much wider audience. Companies can pay one “fee” to the YouTuber and that video is there forever. Someone will always see it, especially if it’s on of the bigger ones.

    couple of weeks ago I did the whole Skillshare thing. 45 second ad, decent pay for it.

    But, Chris has been round long enough that if he reviews something he will give an actual honest review of something and not say what the company wants to hear. For as good as Barry Rowland is as a reviewer, I’ve never heard him say “I wouldn’t buy this” or “I don’t think this is good”
     
  2. EricW

    EricW Registered

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    I think he means denigrating in the sense of when you start a topic to discuss a subject where in comparison RF2 could eventually benefit from the ideas, you mainly get replies stating the opposite...or it's being ridiculed in some way.
    And few or no ideas to make it flourish.
    A bit like a old company going down the drain and you're beating a dead horse...
     
  3. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    Not testing new wheel with rf2 is like buying a new hi-fi system and then playing lullabies instead of music :p

    Btw what is the point of this topic?
    We all here know that rf2 ffb is the best.
     
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  4. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I'd like to add to this loose topic. Although this thread itself by its opening is extremely vain and low value. I have a great desire to express my opinion, or my frustration about simracing youtubers.

    Except Neils and some occasional content from people who really has something to say, most simracing youtbers are very average simracers. I don't mean in terms of how much races they are capable to win. Their topics, knowledge, observations - are average. And sometimes just plain wrong or missing the target by much. I don't say that because they won't do rF2 as much. I say so, because they just simply doesn't have that much expertise in the topic of simulation. Yes they can review rigs, hardware, content, graphics, sounds, general feel of the cars... but they can't touch the essential stuff, or if they do, it is very hard for them to nail it, they are often nowhere close. And so we have simracing right now being really loose on its foundation, people just care way more about gear, content and graphics than the very base of simracing - physical realism. If anything people knows little about it, and wants to know less. I guess popular simracing influencers just reflects that.

    Is it sad that Chris Haye doesn't have rF2 ? Yes it is, it is sad that many other youtubers doesn't give it a spot, it is sad that in my local, Lithuanian simracing community there also is next to zero mentioning of rF2. But I think it might be because not only simracers are getting detached from the very essence of simracing, but S397 themselves with each month of nothing done to reinforce its physics, and I mean core physics, not figuring out how to parametrize cars and tires to use all of rF2 - although that is a problem too.

    Chris Haye ? He once ranted to stop being "elitist" about simulation, and even proposed to look for some other name, as "simracing" according to him is about simulating act of racing, and simulating aspects of car handling and solid realism is secondary, if not further down the order to him. People like that don't use rF2 (usually, because many rF2 users has no idea about realism, and just sticks around for the idea of realism). Not everyone wants to face full blast of reality, some people may prefer watch other people play games, rather than to watch actual real thing, let alone learn from that. At this point simracing becomes not a supplement of reality, but substitute of it. This is and will be led by people who in their lives has experienced limited amounts of reality, and also has limited amounts of testosterone, just to end my rant with a funny note.
     
  5. Pawel44

    Pawel44 Registered

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    Or perhaps MG only takes interesting parts and doesn't give a s**t about rF2.
     
  6. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    Especially when the OP starts a post based on denigration that comes across as whining.

    Youtube is for home made videos. Some can capitalize on them, but lets be honest; anyone with a genuine intent to capitalize on internet entertainment has their own dedicated server and doesn't use Youtube as the revenue stream is quite limited in comparison.

    When the other racing games have a realistic tire physics structure that runs 100x more efficiently they may elevate their status to a Race Sim. Until then, IMO they remain just games.
     
  7. MiguelVallejo

    MiguelVallejo Registered

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    "opinion leader" .... :D:D:D:D
     
  8. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    Chris Haye DOES own rfactor2...


    So show us how it's done, then.

    We (I say we, I don't do much sim racing content anymore) are entertainers. Nils is good at physics and happens to be entertaining at the same time. You're expecting every single sim racer from Dave Cam to Empty Bawkx to know every aspect of a physics engine inside out and tell you all about the realism? I don't get it. I get you are interested in physics and stuff, that's fine. But it doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

    JoeBloggs2992 on YouTube or Twitch doesn't care about that sort of thing. He wants to chill out and watch someone fire touring cars into turn 3 at Silverstone or whatever.

    It's just a review of a wheelbase, I don't understand why people are getting so offended he didn't use rFactor2 in his review.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
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  9. prceurope

    prceurope Registered

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    Dan Suzuki (not his real name obv) is pretty honest about rF2 and why he plays other titles instead, despite how good rF2 is:



    He is one of the few YouTuber "sim racers" I can tolerate listening to, even if most of his stuff is iRacing related.

    Even if S397 makes the core experience more accessible, rF2 is too difficult for the majority of sim racers anyway. I did a comparison of the AMG GT3 around Nords between rF2 and AMS2 (new v.1.2) over the weekend. I was consistently 8:10-20 in AMS2 and 8:25-35 in rF2 because I kept losing the car on difficult parts of the track and lost time in the recoveries.

    AMS2 was much more forgiving, all other things being equal, yet it's more challenging and alive than ACC (I know ACC doesn't have Nords) and more communicative than iRacing. And, AMS2 was so much easier to get into, much faster to load, much simpler to set up a race, and it felt more like a race meeting than a scripted series of sessions.

    But, rF2 was so much more satisfying to drive. I could feel every bump, every oscillation of the suspension, every bump on the kerbs I intended to hit and on those I did not, every time a tyre started to lose grip, every revolution of slip when I got on the power too aggressively.

    I could not care less if every ACC fanboi who thinks they have reached GT Nirvana never takes a look at rF2. What does concern me, however, is the plethora of admirers of the original AC who will dive headlong into AMS2 and believe it's better than rF2, and that it's the most realistic sim on the planet.

    There are too many choices: AC, ACC, iRacing, AMS2, Raceroom, PC2, just to name the PC choices. ACC and AC2 (when it comes out) will offer cross-platform competition between PS5 and PC, complete with Discord integration. The ability to jump into a competitive race in 2 clicks and receive a setup from a Discord crew chief just based on a few simple chats and a couple of test laps will set AC2 apart and rF2 will be relegated to being an OEM for pro teams (although it should be remembered that Kunos cut its teeth building simulators for Ferrari).

    The warnings could not be more stark for MG: take the UX and bug fixes seriously or you will be left behind in the arms race. And, yes, YouTubers do influence people. Just read the YT comments where people try rF2 for the first time.
     
  10. EricW

    EricW Registered

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    Despite on how low level you find some YouTube or Twitch content...
    That's where the potential RF2 buyers are.
    When you grew up with magazines etc. Like me, You're either to old or maybe to ignorant to understand, but that is the present.
    Give me another promotional option with the same exposure please...
    And a side note...
    I'd like to see everyone who says they are slow or bad drivers, join a race and beat them and post a link here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
  11. Sim_Player

    Sim_Player Registered

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    Personally never cared about sim Youtubers, I watch some videos when new content is released BUT only So I could get a rough idea on how good or bad content is ....so it help me to decide whether I should rush to download it or wait for sale BUT main point is i try things REGARDLESS.
    I gave nearly all the sims a try even though they didn't appeal me or seem like extreme cash grab *cough* iracing *cough*
    Concerning thing is good chunk of people get "influenced " by whatever is in trend on YT.
    So yea to get these casual on RF2 train , it needs to be more active on YT.
    With MG as support RF2 can dish out much more content which will keep it more "alive" Youtubers channel.
     
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  12. Pawel44

    Pawel44 Registered

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    Why would they want to? Does rF2 has anything to offer when comes to GT3? I mean laser scanned tracks, cars that doesn't feel like rally cars etc. These are two main issues which keeps me playing ACC instead. However, I'll welcome Monza with opened arms.
     
  13. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    And then beat the pros like I did

    (•_•)
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■
    (⌐■_■)

    (This is a joke pls don’t take so seriously)
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
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  14. EricW

    EricW Registered

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    I have a sense of humour Aiden :D
     
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  15. prceurope

    prceurope Registered

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    GT3 in rF2 is 10x more satisfying than ACC. The 488 GT3 is a masterpiece (and I believe it's their latest GT3 offering).

    ACC wins when it comes to ease of use, licensed content, sound and variety. It loses (for me) when it comes to handling and FFB. ACC is the Pringles of sim racing. Fun, quick, easy, repetitive and only interesting if consumed with friends and beer in front of a top UFC lineup. :D
     
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  16. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    Glad someone does!
     
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  17. Sim_Player

    Sim_Player Registered

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    Not only satisfying but probably realistic too, atleast thats what i observed comparing with tons of real life footage.
    I would also argue that sounds of some of the GT3 cars is probably better in RF2 like porsche and probably audi as well.
     
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  18. prceurope

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    I had some in-depth conversations about this with a couple of pro racing driver friends. The gist of it is that Pro category GT3s are generally set up to be quite loose. So if you watch those on-boards, the number of quick small corrective hand movements (and larger opposite lock inputs) is higher in the Pro cars vs the Am cars, but the strength required to turn the car in to the apex under load is the same or very similar. Compounding the looser setup is that the Pro drivers put the cars on the edge far more than the Ams (who put the cars on edge by mistake rather than by design) and it's on the edge that the small quick corrections make the difference.

    Second, the GT3's geometry is based around power steering. Having a car with frequent snap oversteer and strong kerb hits would not only make it undriveable for gentlemen customers, but would also be both dangerous and expensive, and the power steering is important for mitigating fatigue. If you've ever been in the SRO paddock, you'll know that most bronze drivers don't look like they can survive a 45 min crossfit class.

    So, when it comes to whether ACC is less realistic than rF2, the question I ask is whether the steering is as responsive (it is) and whether the FFB is giving the driver the same information that they would get from a real-life GT steering wheel (it is not). Kunos knows how to get high fidelity FFB to a steering wheel - but AC is also successful because it includes more FFB than just the physics of the steering column, rack and suspension. The oft-mentioned "SOP" feel.

    Ultimately, I think ACC is still a couple of years away from getting the most out of UE4. I don't think they set out to build an ultra-realistic GT3 sim any more than manufacturer GT3 programs set out to build a prototype race car with a road car shell. It's about commercial success, and they made GT3 racing far more accessible to the average G29 owner than rF2 has. Having invested over $12k into my own rig, I'm certainly not up in the top 0.1% of sim racing idiots, but I think I'm biased in what I'm expecting when I switch everything on. I use rF2 to prepare to get back on track, not to set impressive lap times for my YT audience. :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
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  19. Sim_Player

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    Very interesting info indeed, your talk about car being on edge reminded me of this video ->



    I'm very very sure you can't drive like this in ACC, I'm 99% going to be wrong on this but i feel like ACC doesn't has good tyre lateral slip simulation or maybe something off with diff. unfortunately idk precise reasons for this.
    This kind of behaviour is present since AC days (i describes it briefly in following text )
    because in ACC as you go up the speed the car becomes more and more on rails to a point that you can crank up rear arb to MAX and it doesn't actually produce oversteer instead the car follows line better without any sign of rear slip.(tested it with TC off )

    Now going back to that video , I'm quite sure if you load Audi GT3 (closet thing to lamborghini in RF2 ) on paul richard and load a proper low drag setup you can get slides that occur almost same places as this video, with some different characteristics ofcourse but it is quite close.
    I haven't checked specifically this combo but i compared other tracks,car combo with multiple videos of GT3 IRL in same track car combo and i get quite satisfying results. Best example would be exit of pouhon(yes on very end of that corner to be precise) and blachimont (T18) at spa.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
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  20. GTClub_wajdi

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    YouTubers obviously are looking for audience and subscribers so they will make videos about popular sims like AC, ACC, IRacing.... sadly rfactor2 isn’t that popular and won’t bring you much fans/audience/subscribers/sponsors. It’s so obvious so just don’t give a f..
     
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