S397 GT3 Mod Question

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kyle House, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    On line racers are a small percentage of total users of a sim, so if you don't have many total players you won't have enough on line racers. So catering to off line racers is also very important.

    Improving graphics is rightly IMO the right thing to do now, a task that proves more difficult than improving physics of AC or PC if they feel so inclined.

    As a game developer, you have to choose what area of your game is the priority, knowing that the serious on line racing business is dominated by Iracing, expensive, but proven and well managed platform, so unless you offer much better, pay a lot for publicity, you can only compete on pricing (with lower margins).

    RF2 has to broaden it's appeal, the fact of having in the near future a car series (not monotype as all the ISI-S397 cars up to now) will be a welcome improvement, but it will be GT3 (nothing against it), but IRacing, AC, PC2 have also GT3 series, and some third parties mods of GT are quite decent in RF2.

    Why don't they try to offer something different, for instance F1 1962, Group C 1985, or Le Mans 1971?
    In collaboration or not with third parties modders.

    Cheers.
     
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  2. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    Sure people who have been around for a long time may find different interests or face new situations in life which prevent them from simracing. But that is not a reason for low numbers in rf2 when at the same time AC, iRacing and probably PC2 will look healthier.

    Fact is that many people who come to leagues start off with public racing (after offline). For many reasons people don't tend to find a league as a first thing when they enter a new racing sim/racing game. When there is no public racing, the game just doesn't strike as appealing to majority. Many will count 1+1=2 (dead public racing = dead everything).

    Those who stick around understands better of course but it's not enough, we need to make other people understand too. Great if your league is doing good atm, but do you think it will last forever if we just accept the current state of things? What happens after your members becomes unable to race because of some reason...no one will fill their seat.

    I'm running a league too and we are doing pretty good, but in no way I feel we are safe. We have great people in our league but it's obvious that rf2 is losing atm in terms of number of people racing online. It's no use for us if there are lots of players in rf2 who's only interest is, and ever will be, offline racing.

    Showing how many players are online (AI excluded), showing all the tracks and content server is running, showing current session and track and finally allowing everyone to join who have at least one car which server uses and the current track would take us long way to the right direction. Admins have a responsibility too of course to keep servers easily accessible and in keeping things interesting for league members and listening to league members.

    Some of my cents.

    -Matt
    Virtual Racing Championship (VRC)
    admin
     
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  3. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    That's true, I like to use things like FCY in any league I run. It's fun and add a random element just like real life. I rarely find non oval leagues using it. I like to run tire/fuel 2x to create stratety, etc. I suspect when I retire from league admin I may end up driving less and less online.
     
  4. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    You hit the nail pretty spot on and it puzzles me why this should be called a conspiracy or whatever. My personal experience right now is, that I rather spend my time with fleshed out games/sims that are well populated instead of the DX11 beta for rF2, where I have performance issues. I tried AC public racing quite a few times and watched some PC races on Steam, but it is quite easy to see that good online racing with enough people and a good racing etiquette is not a matter of course. For that you will propably have to join a league, no matter wich sim or invest into iRacing. Another thing that people quite often oversee, is the fact that rF2 offer quite nice options for offline racing. I wouldn't be suprised if people rather run their own quick offline race with content that they desire instead of waiting on an empty server toether with AI running not their favortie content. So in that regard, the incentive to join a race needs to be there wich isn't the case right now (aka proper structure with a time table, predefined content, easy to use UI with proper filtering and atleast a basic ranking system).
     
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  5. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Yep, in the end more sims is not really a good thing, especially if you are a league admin :p
    Things were much better when basically you only had GTR2 and rF1 to choose haha
     
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  6. T1specialist

    T1specialist Registered

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    That is one way to put it. The way I'd put it is "small". What rf2 needs more than anything else is more users. Why aren't people playing rf2? I don't think it is graphics, I don't think it is rf2 being too hardcore or anything nonsense like that. I think rf2 has a lots of fundamental issues that make it a hard product to like.

    But the main issue is that rf2 is old game. When it was released it had its surge of new players and that surge was then killed off with bad business model and the online fees. Only the hot iron core of the rf2 playerbase is left. Those who bought lifetime subs and those who like rf2 more than the other sims. That is a small crowd. It is also hard to make an old product grow and it is especially difficult when the main audience has already left because they did not like what rf2 was when it was released.

    I don't think rf2 is fragile at all. Being a hardcore sim it is one of those games which have very few competitors. This is not fps genre where new call of duty comes out every 3 months. People left because rf2 was not good enough. I hope improving rf2 brings people back but at the same as the days go by I'm personally seeing less and less chance of it happening.

    As a modder the more I learn about rf2 the more disappointed I've become. The more I learn the more I just learn about limitations, missing features and non-existent documentation. Just week or two ago I learned about a feature in rf2 where the driver model .gmt name needs to be different for each mod car or you get crashes. It is just bizzarre that kind of limitations exist. Crazy! That is something that is almost impossible to troubleshoot! And there are like hundreds of similar traps on there on the path to the finished mod.

    What grinds my gears is the poor documentation and how it just won't get fixed. The mclaren gt3 car for example came with new digital gauges. No mention of them in any patch notes (is there even patch notes for that car, I can't find them...? I'll give fictional chocolate cookie to the first person who finds the release patch notes for the mclaren.), nobody was told about it. I learned about it watching a youtube video and saw the new displays. Luckily the parameters are simple enough to guess (LastLapFont and BestLapFont in cockpitinfo to get lap times work in your car model's displays) but because there is no communication I doubt many people even know about. Who knows what else new rf2 graphics/physics features are hidden in those mclaren encrypted files? Will we ever know? In the past you could open the mas files and see for yourself but with encrypted files the only source of information is now blocked.

    The new rain features will be the ultimate test for rf2 modding I think. Either it will kill off modding or there is a chance of improvement. Because with encrypted .mas files now the only way to learn about new features is from information coming from devs and looking at the new features in the mclaren and information blackout about those new features from the devs I'm sadly getting more and more pessimistic about it. I hope the info is posted somewhere in usable form but... hope won't translate into material settings, textures and working features. I hope the mclaren lcd display issue is just a mistake. Something that they simply forgot to share.
     
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  7. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Historical mistakes and bad choices sure helps to make people move away and does not help to bring them back, it's a snow ball after all and asking people every time to have patience wont work when they have been dealing with it for years. rF2 had all the time it needed to become the Unreal Engine of simracing, but it didn't and now this is past anyway.
    Sometimes I actually wish S397 had put an end to rF2 and released a rF3 instead with everything fixed :) Yeah I know it would make them lose some licenses, but in the end you could have more people buying the game (hype) that way what would cover the expendings.
    Maybe they'll surprise us and huge changes are coming. Let's wait and see. The community being small can be actually a good thing to get rid of the bad fame of past mistakes.
     
  8. stonec

    stonec Member

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    Maybe going with rF3 would have made some things easier, but then we would have nothing to play with now, as rF2 would be dead in the grave and everybody would be waiting for rF3. I think the roadmaps and plans to improve rF2 have all been sensible, now it's just a matter of implementing those things and getting them released. I have no problem to wait a little longer for new features to come, but the challenge for rF2 is to attract any new players. The Steam reviews are pretty telling what the new players view as problems with rF2, especially if you read the recent reviews over the last 30 days. rF2 used to have a review score of 80%+ on Steam, now it has dropped to 74%, with the recent 30 days having 64%. Us old guys can keep waiting for new features, but for a new sim racer the competition is fierce and rF2 frankly doesn't seem to attract them well enough. I guess average age in this community is well over 30 or even close to 40, whereas globally sim racer age is probably closer to 20 than 30.
     
  9. stonec

    stonec Member

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    This review is a typical example of a user that has not understood how rF2 works with workshop, so he probably gave up on the game right away. When the base game comes pre-installed with some content, but all the new content is missing, then probably the conclusion I would draw as a newbie would be the same as this user, i.e. that workshop is only for third party and that the promised stock cars etc. are missing.
     
  10. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    A new user that hasn't understood how RF2 works (surely he is guilty , may be he didn't read the documentation, or didn't follow the wizard instructions). Result he writes his experience and deters many other potential new users from even trying the game.

    Is it a "spoiled brat as you defined some users in an other post" , a dumb user as most of my friends are, as wrote an other poster when I told that many of my friends couldn't play with the demo, or simply a lost user, that has no clue on how to get the expected goods he has been promised and may be has paid for?

    Why not an YT video played the first time you enter the game explaining the basics things a newbee must know (this would take less than a day work), and where to find more help if needed, nor displaying a simple reame.txt explaining the same.

    What if when clicking on the cars square with right click of mouse, a list of official content already installed appeared, with an * for uninstalled content (a further click on uninstalled content would guide him on how to install it or lets dream install it).

    Rocket science, not needed for an hardcore sim, or normal users?

    I may be wrong (if I am wrong I apologize), but since may we are waiting for the new UI, and not a single thing has been done to help new users.

    A company that doesn't understand that the customer is always right, in a competitive market is a dead one.

    Cheers.
     
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  11. pkelly

    pkelly Registered

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    I don't consider myself a newbie and have raced for many years in an rF1 league. I certainly would race online with rF2...if I had a tutorial on how to do it. Right now it's too confusing and I choose not to spend the time to figure out how to make that happen.
    Any offers from the more experienced on providing such a tutorial? Any Leagues that have one now, that they're willing to share here?
    Maybe there is something in the works from S397 - like a Steam rF2 Quick Guide to Online Racing, eh Chris? ;-)
    Perhaps there are others in my boat. Hard to row with no oars :-(
     
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  12. Christos Segkounas

    Christos Segkounas Registered

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    They are working on a completely new UI aren't they?
    The structure of the game with some official content and plenty of 3rd party mods of varying quality cannot necessarily be to everyone's liking.
    Make this the best sim/game ever, you will still get negative reviews from some people, I wouldn't use those as a guide.
    The overall score received from users for this game is very high.
    "Lack of content".
    Yeah, right.
    Haven't even got the game yet and complaining about lack of content, in what world does that make sense?
     
  13. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Sense or not, his $ would be welcome to S397, as the $ of other potential user deterred by his comment.
    Since when are they working on a new UI?

    A post from Peterchen
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/baffled-by-press.46053/page-21#post-768171
    Sorry to quote myself, a few posts I wrote on the subject.
    This one is from November 2014
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/baffled-by-press.46053/page-21#post-768173
    For memory a proposal I made at the end of January of this year
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/rfactor-2-now-on-steam.50723/page-27#post-876841
    From today:
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index....suggested-easy-fixes.57836/page-2#post-913991

    As you see much improvement since then.

    Cheers.
     
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  14. bluet

    bluet Registered

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    So true ..to much talk about pizza ..not enough about rf2..
     
  15. Christos Segkounas

    Christos Segkounas Registered

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  16. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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  17. Christos Segkounas

    Christos Segkounas Registered

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    Which was suggested by who?
     
  18. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    By anyone, may be themselves.
    Cheers.
     
  19. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I have big expectations for the new UI. I just hope two things don't happen:

    - I hope the changes are not purely cosmetic. The part that needs further changes is the matchmaker, IMO. Launcher should disappear since it adds nothing.

    - I also expect that race events disappear as they are now and a new and modern hosting system is built. A refashioning of actual system where race options need to be determined in many different places is absolutely condemned to repeat the history. The hosting system is obsolete, having to use external tools to create something where options like parc ferme are in player.json pit speed in rfm and realroad options under weather ootions which by the way need an external plugin to simulate realtime weather whose author abandoned rF2 two years ago is certainly not the way to go.

    I could follow the above list with the necessity to use external tools to decrypt content in order to adjust fuel and tire conditions because somebody decided that including different number in a hard coded list was too much effort.

    The problem of rF2 is that it has never listened to its user base.
     
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  20. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    That is simply not true and you know it, ISI added features due to community feedback and S397 are clearly doing that now, seems like you're on an agenda to ruffle some feathers to me :rolleyes:
     

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