S397 GT3 Mod Question

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kyle House, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Some racers want the best possible experience to enjoy. In order to give clues to devs on which areas to focus you need to talk to them. I can do both.

    Enjoy the wonderful graphics of PC2
     
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  2. T1specialist

    T1specialist Registered

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    You can watch a youtube video and see the car without having the dlc. At what point does seeing mean you need to pay for it?

    If you needed the dlc just to race against it (online) several things would happen:

    - the dlc cars simply get used less because there is smaller number of people who can use it. This means less word of mouth, less videos in youtube and less discussion online about the content. Less skins for the car for example.

    - seeing the car in action also I think helps with sales. When people can see it in the game, can race against it, can hear it and can come to the conclusion that it is a quality piece of content they are more likely to buy it than compared to situation where they have to buy just to test it. People generally don't like buying content just to test whether they like it.

    - it also means leagues and servers are much less likely to pick cars that force people to buy them. Which is common sense for the league. Dlc cars = less entries. Which means the cars are used even less online and the servers running these cars have far less people on them. This means the people who bought the dlc have less people to race with. I'd also say when there are those dlc servers online most people are running the dlc cars. Which means you lose the variety of the other cars. It hurts everybody.

    - the base game becomes more and more expensive for newcomers. If you want to do a gt3 league for example you need the base game and all the dlc cars just to drive one of the default cars in the series. That won't bring new people into rf2. Even iracing decided that was not a good business model. The reason why they chose to do it is something we can only speculate though. Did they came to that conclusion because people wanted it to change or because it was financially better solution to allow people race against dlc cars they don't own..

    - as a result of all this the value of dlc is reduced. You simply get less when you buy the dlc. It is a lot less popular online which means you struggle trying to find people to race with it, you struggle to find leagues running it
     
  3. Depco

    Depco Registered

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    I certainly agree with @T1specialist . When the GT3 pack is finally fleshed out having a free car that can be added into the mix will allow people who are on the fence about DLC to continue to race in GT3 leagues without having to Shell out the money. I suspect that after a few races or even a season they will start to see value in the other vehicles. To be perfectly Frank that Camaro is a bit of a beast to wrestle around a track and to know that you can spend a couple bucks and get a Ferrari or the McLaren which are much more approachable becomes more appealing. However, that still doesn't stop people from signing up for the league races and taking part in the series.

    Moving on to what I can only imagine is some sort of online competition structure similar to iRacing, which sounds like its coming in early 2018 :confused::eek::mad:, having free vehicles that are associated with a specific pack like the GT pack only helps sales because people can see the cars in action and they become more desirable. From a pure business standpoint this is exactly what you want, people to buy your cars because they wish to drive them and not because they are forced to in order to take part in a specific competition. The World's Fastest Gamer competition shows that people are willing to open their wallet for Quality content.

    I think URD content was a perfect example of this. At the time it came out it was the first payware mod for rfactor 2. The cars drove well enough and looked pretty darn good compared to all the other mediocre mods that we're coming out at the time. The 10 to 15 bucks that were paid for the mod at the time seemed pretty reasonable to most people who bought it. Me included. I don't know how much money URD made on that mod but I'm hoping it was fairly sizable.

    In the end it only makes sense to allow people to race against the DLC cars without having to pay for them so that they can then be enticed to actually make a purchase. On top of that it allows people to come in and join and enjoy rFactor 2 without having to put any additional money in if they don't want to. More Racers equals more fun. More fun will likely turn into more money for Studio 397. More money for Studio 397 will result in more development of cars and tracks for this fantastic sim. And that's a good thing for everyone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
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  4. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    I second that. Saw a lot of leagues die in the past two years. It´s so extreme that I worry about my hobby as a whole, because rF2 is the only thing I can drive. I hope pcars2 change that situation! If that is the case, then goodbye patient-talker, redrosed-glasses-looker and Ignoritan-swallower!
     
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  5. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Do the leagues dying have anything to do with rF2 itself? I mean.. if that was the case they'd move to another platform. I've seen leagues that moved to Assetto Corsa and never managed to have success either.
    Things change, priorities change, people change, responsabilities change. I see people moving away from league administration and there is nobody to replace them, the league cant continue if nobody is ahead. And having more sims in the market is not really helping ;)
    PC2 will have more leagues and online racing? Ofc it will, all the hype and PC1 number of copies sold indicates that. For how long will that stay is another history.
    In the end being a league admin is such an ungrateful job and there is literally 0 effort from devs to make this job easier (lack of automation and simplification of the process just suck). PC2 does look like will attempt to solve it but already looks like system won't be present at game release.
    You see a site like EEC may cease activities soon. Not due to platform or anything, people just moved away because work, family, interests changed, etc and there may be nobody to replace the administration.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  6. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    You are defending a lot but I don`t think you have a clue what you are talking about.
    Look picture below close it explains you the reason why leagues are struggling.
    rF2 lobby.jpg

    How many real people do you think are online at the moment? Answer is 0 o_O
    I take new pick this evening at 20.00-21.00 CET. I'm guessing that there are about 10-15 real people online ;). How many are you guessing that there there is going to bee online at 20.00-2100 CET?:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
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  7. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    I'm not defending anything, just giving a real reason for why some leagues disappear. And yes people (users) leave for different reasons (some for same as admins) including going to other sims, reason why I said some of these leagues instead of dying would move to another platform if rF2 was the main issue but this is not happening at all, as I said more sims in the market is not helping ;)
    This is happening in EEC too, some want AC, some want rF2, some want AMS, some will want PC2 and some would even be happy if we go back to GTR 2 :D
    In the end you have no idea where to go, where you'll find success. You can try to host them all but it's more work and honestly not worth it so better disband a league and just join one as a member.
    And as I said in other post: sometimes you have many leagues running the same cars with 5~10 people each, this helps things to end. Empty grids breed empty grids IMO. If they go together and get bigger grids is better, sometimes less is more and a league ending may not be a bad thing.
    I actually hope I understood the "sanctioned leagues" part right in the road map about the competition system. Making it available for everyone will change nothing. Try to force people to stay together and the chances of growing will be better IMO.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
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  8. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    Reading some comments here it feels like we are close to the apocalypse. Maybe you guys should wait for the new UI and when things with the DX11 beta have settled down a bit. I am confident that online will get a tad more active when that happens. A very big issue right now is that people simply don't know if they join an AI race or not and that alone keeps them from joining. The lack of any structure is what makes it a bit difficult to really get into the pickup racing, but I guess alot of that is going to be loocked at in the future. I don't think that the devs are unaware of this or completely ignoring it. I am also looking forward to all the people trying to "race" in PCars, coming back and whining how bad the etiquette is, not even to mention of the general quality of the game itself. At the end that's a completely different topic on it's own, but don't be surprised if you get dissapointed. :)
     
  9. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    I counted all the players logged in online servers at 20.10 CET. There are 17 players logged in league servers and 0 logged in to public servers.:confused:
    @hitm4k3r This is not close to the apocalypse it is apocalypse:(
     
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  10. Christopher Snow

    Christopher Snow Registered

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    I didn't even know there IS a rF2 lobby. :D
     
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  11. Zeh Drei Peo

    Zeh Drei Peo Registered

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    maybe thats the problem ^^
     
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  12. stonec

    stonec Member

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    I bet 99% of those were FSR drivers. I just happened to drive in a test session two hours ago with my team that had 12 guys in it. It does bring up the question how much focus should be put on making a huge online infrastructure if there are no pickup racers anyway. To create such cloud hosted massive things is probably where S397 has expertise, but first the players need to come back.
     
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  13. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Studio 397 should organize weekly official races. During the rest of the week people would train and make small fun races to practice for the big day. 3 classes should be mandatory. Openwheeler, GT/Touring and Rest (hystorical, streer cars, stock cars...). More classes would start segregating the community I think. For race administration you would find volunteers among this forum.

    Hopefully, the new UI will make this easier. However, it is not really necessary. You just need to use the punch of being "official". People will do the rest.

    Believe me. Once you pass a critical number of drivers in a grid, it is much more likely that the rest will come. You probably have to use some kind of hotlap and activity tracing tool so that people can check others times.
     
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  14. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Well while on YT today it recommended me 4 live streams of online leagues...



     
  15. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    It is common to have league races on thursday evening and having 4 races going on don`t proof that rFacvtor 2 online racing has lot of activity.
    I rely don`t know what you are trying to proof and defend . The fact is that rFactor 2 online lobby is a ghost town and your point of view can not change it.
     
  16. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Not trying to prove or defend anything. Just answering to the panic of "MY GOD THERE IS ONLY 17 PEOPLE ONLINE" :D
    Yes, I know rF2 online is a ghost town, I'm a league admin currently looking at moving to rF2 (but probably I'll just stop organizing leagues, got tired). The more sims you get the more people split. Accept that mate, it's not worth to panic about this lol life goes on.
     
  17. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    I accept the fact but it seems you don`t when you are posting YT links and your conspiracy theories why some leagues disappear etc which is nonsense You know as well as I do that it is how platform works and how it has been working last 5 years which reason to low online activity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  18. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Nah, it's not nonsense nor conspiracy. Talk to those people that left it, you'll see what I said. People changed, went to other games (and sims), things move on. 5 years ago there was no AC (released), no PC1, RR was poor, iRacing had less content and players, etc. And nowadays some other games are competing even heavier with simracing small community (like PUBG).
    You are taking this way too serious. This community is fragile, anything cause low numbers for the sims with already smaller community and I dont think this will improve (at least not with a wave of new players at all, in best scenario you can get people from other sims). iRacing wont live forever either, in the day someone get a free system that works like it you can say bye bye to iR.
    Only way to really increase it is going arcade :p
    All IMO, ofc. As I said, not defending, I just dont think this will change much. If you manage to get current active players in same server will be "good enough"
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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  19. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    You should take a look at leagues running more, especially VEC lol
    But ok, I got the trolling ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ have a good night. Welcome to the list.
     
  20. Brack Jabham

    Brack Jabham Registered

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    As a league admin - I can say that you have to spend a lot of time and have a lot of patience to build up a league. Then you find 3 or 4 of your league members want to be league admins and you split your group and start again. IMHO - I get why people want to do there own league, but better if league admins can be open to ideas and suit what their participants want, Hopefully, less splitting that way. I live in a country with a small population in a bad time zone (Australia) and New Zealand is probably worse off. We have waaay too many leagues for the number of simracers. However, I also get that we have a lot of choice, and different ways of doing things (which is healthy). Looking at a point in time to see how many people are online is useless. I am in bed when US is online and vice-versa. We have 20-30 car grids in our league for our main championships - I would hate to run in 60 car grids!
     
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