rFactor Anniversary

[JRS]

As most know, rFactor celebrates 20 years around now.

By September 8, 2005, there was already a Formula 3 mod and not too long after, Barber Motorsports Park. Literally hours spent in lobbies, race after race.

I had already built a pvc tube frame cockpit, big old Sony 24" CRT on a stand in front for GPL and NR2003, and by 2006 had a G25.

Not for nothing, I purchased my rFactor 2 lifetime license in early October, 2012 for around $50 at the time... I think.

Iirc, the first open betas started in early 2012.

On my NAS.


Interesting to observe the development curves at the time with rFactor in 2005, then, the spinoff titles based on the ISI Motor (EA, Simbin, 2Pez, REIZA, ARCA) and in a fairly quick 7 years, rFactor 2. I believe Steam happened by 2015 and by 2016 I think it became the only delivery system and way to authenticate the software. Someone may remember that history better.

rF2 is now at 13 years, quickly approaching 14 years. I don't think simulation / gaming will see another Image Space Incorporated. Quite possibly not another rFactor / rFactor 2 either.

 

[mantasisg]

Thank you for notifying us. It is a special day then. I'll buy some wine for this occasion. It goes close to my simracing anniversary. Depending on what event was the true start of it. I think by 2007 or 2008 I had rF1, and it was special. I don't think I knew how to properly get "most" out of rF1 till 2011/2012, crazy that by that time rF2 was being released.

rF2 is now at 13 years, quickly approaching 14 years. I don't think simulation / gaming will see another Image Space Incorporated. Quite possibly not another rFactor / rFactor 2 either.

Almost all signs show that there will definitely be nothing like it, close to it or better. People don't understand.

I guess rF2 was a big gamble, maybe it was unclear at the time where simracing will go. What people are going to be like in future and what they will appreciate, what they will choose.

It is not the end of the world yet.

 

[redapg]

I can not exactly remember when i first drove rF1, but it really was different and from that Day on my Favorite Game/Race Simulation.
Then i started to being curious how it works and what an average User like me can do with it.
Now it's 20 Years later and i still don't know it to 100 %.

 

[Mauro]

A dream (a worthy heir to Grand Prix Legends) that unfortunately didn't come true.
In any case, for me, RF2 remains the best simulator currently available.

 

[8Ball]

First build the Historic drove better then they do now imho.
I prefer the old tyres for these.

Despite it's shortcomings I still waiting for a better driving engine which imho says more about the other studios then it does about ISI.

Oh and in all it's wisdom what did the passionate sim racing community do ?
Kicked them to the kerb

ISI was always up against it.
" GTR 2 vs rFactor Wars " never ended

 

[JRS]

In any case, for me, RF2 remains the best simulator currently available.

I've own and tried all of them and I agree. rF2 really is generally the best of the bunch. LMU is a close second for me, no surprise.

Hopefully the devs take some of what may have been learned on LMU and rF2 gets some polish soon as well.

It would be nice to see some newer .tgm files reflecting newer tire technology available for modding however, lots can be done with what's there.

I'd like to see a bit more damage realism / deformation. Some 'popcorn' type physics for carbon bits on impact, rubber and gravel flying around on track, exhaust / smoke from pipes, brake heat and other wear actually causing failures of a DNF level.

 

[JRS]

Thank you for notifying us. It is a special day then. I'll buy some wine for this occasion. It goes close to my simracing anniversary. Depending on what event was the true start of it. I think by 2007 or 2008 I had rF1, and it was special. I don't think I knew how to properly get "most" out of rF1 till 2011/2012, crazy that by that time rF2 was being released.



Almost all signs show that there will definitely be nothing like it, close to it or better. People don't understand.

I guess rF2 was a big gamble, maybe it was unclear at the time where simracing will go. What people are going to be like in future and what they will appreciate, what they will choose.

It is not the end of the world yet.

Though a part of me has that bit of concern now and then, I know it's not over.

If iracing can rehash that engine, expand it, port it to 64-bit, and keep it going, it's not unrealistic that rF2 / gMotor 2.5 or whatever they call it now, can be tweaked and have more squeezed out of it. Look at what Reiza did the gMotor 2.0 and AMS 1.

I feel it's somewhat of a shame that there won't be a real successor like a gMotor 3.0 or 3.5 or whatever it would become.

 

[JRS]

Looking back at old file dates, receipts / licenses etc., I believe I started iRacing, bought Assetto Corsa Beta, rFactor 2 and Project CARS all within weeks of each other around September / October 2012.

Again, not for nothing but, I think I did like a $75 or $100 buy in for pCARS and actually received about €155 total in installment payments right up to June 2017.

 

[JRS]

I can not exactly remember when i first drove rF1, but it really was different and from that Day on my Favorite Game/Race Simulation.
Then i started to being curious how it works and what an average User like me can do with it.
Now it's 20 Years later and i still don't know it to 100 %.

Like yourself, I too became interested in what makes it tick, though not as involved as you.

I think I've said it before. rFactor / rFactor 2 are like modeling kits for adults, and I get to drive the finished product.

Great site you have btw.

 

[Comante]

Rfactor2 will survive in his niche for a long time to come, out there some heroes still play GPL , there are still people playing gran prix 2, in a modern port/conversion. I too hope that after LMU will be settled a bit, RF2 code will receive a big overhaul, but I'm not holding my breath on it.

 

[redapg]

As long as Motorsport Games survives, my Hope about rFactor 2, that it gets an Overhaul with a lot of Bug Fixes one Day, survives too.

But there can also be a Chance, no matter how big it is, that MSG sells it to a Company that has a serious Interest in "Polishing" it.

We will see....

 

[Chris Lesperance]

My hope, like you guys have mentioned, that there would be a code update. After working on the Swifts for as long as I did, I do see that there is a LOT that would need to be upgraded in order to make rF2 relevant to the current crop of sims out there. While it is my current platform to work on, I can see why people gravitate to the other options.

 

[Ayrton de Lima]

Even though LMU has a more active online platform, it's sad to see rF2 stuck in time today.

 

[mantasisg]

Understandable to want more updates and in general life and going forward, I want it too. People had to prove it that they want it. People has strange relationship with quality. They seem to want great quality. And then they choose quantity over quality. I would have guessed that there werent enough up to standard very good quality content in rF2 in the past, but later S397 with MSG started pumping out lots of very good tracks and cars. I haven't really noticed people rewarding that appropriately.

Of course people want more core improvements, thats what people talk about. It remains a mystery what would have happened with rF2 if studio started pumping out mad core updates with hottest features really well worked out one after another. How many would it take to make the boulder move ? At this point I am so weirded out by majority of people, that I wouldn't be surprised if everyone would still have kept on using AC for 5-10 more years, before realizing "oh wait, there is something better".

 

[avenger82]

As long as Motorsport Games survives, my Hope about rFactor 2, that it gets an Overhaul with a lot of Bug Fixes one Day, survives too.

But there can also be a Chance, no matter how big it is, that MSG sells it to a Company that has a serious Interest in "Polishing" it.

We will see....

Was there any hint for that? I mean real indication that MSG still have plans for anything like that? Genuine question, because I don’t follow MSG announcements , forums etc.

If not then I think the only hope would the latter: some company buys rf2 rights in order to monetise it. But I’m not seeing it either.
Third option would be if rf2’s source code and some assets „leaked” and community would take over , squash most important bugs and keep it alive. Something similar to what happened with Falcon 4.0( which is now Falcon BMS) and Richard Burns Rally or AC 1 to some extent (with CSP, SOL, Pure ) . But this seems least likely by far.

 

[redapg]

Was there any hint for that?...

Short said, no, there wasn't.

But as long as there is nothing concrete, everything can happen.

And to be honest, i doubt that rF2 will ever be gifted to the Community.

 

[Lazza]

Devin made sense on this theme a couple of days ago (albeit LMU focused, but still pertinent):

rF1 did anything but die when it stopped updating, and it wasn't perfect or bug free or 'feature complete'. I don't know why a decade later as soon as a game isn't getting any updates (as redapg says, there's no confirmation either way, but I wouldn't hope for much personally) it's abandoned, dead, let's hope for a source release, etc.

There's a whole bunch of people still loving AC because it's easy to mod, has lots of content (fair bit of the quality stuff is ripped, mind you), despite the fact it's had no updates for years, and more importantly (from a simulation point of view) a lot of those mods are copy pasta physics, and all that activity does absolutely nothing for the devs (and therefore further development of any title, and to some extent even survival of game development studios).


There was a discussion on discord a few days ago of the "why don't they bring the updated GT3 cars to rF2 and make some money" kind... a staff member points out the income wouldn't recover the costs, and immediately it's questioned. Bear in mind the staff member knows much more info than any general game player, but there's so much cynicism.


Sims these days are so much more demanding from a development point of view, whether it's the game itself or the content, and people still want the cheap option. I'm cheap, I get it, but you can't have ongoing innovative development and the flexibility to only pay for the small amount you want. Had similar discussions regarding dedi servers in LMU; so much activity on rF2 has been on dedi servers and third party mod content, which gives nothing to the developers. But how dare they ask a modest amount to host a server (to be fair probably not even making much money on it, but it keeps things centralised and features (like skins) working properly).

But I digress...

 

[8Ball]

t I wouldn't be surprised if everyone would still have kept on using AC for 5-10 more years, before realizing "oh wait, there is something better".

3rd party made AC along with Ultimate.

 

[JRS]

My instincts lean toward what @redapg is thinking.

I'll add, I'd think, at this point rF2 is still an asset to MSG both in the code and whatever revenue it brings so it's worth at least two things. It's a bargaining chip for another deal or it can be sold to generate revenue to preserve MSG if needed though, least likely.
More likely, we eventually see rFactor 2 w/gMotor 3.0 / rFactor 3 or something new because it can make more money plain and simple. In theory, it could be left as the modding platform it always has been and they continue to use that as a selling point.
"The World's Most Diverse and Dynamic Racing Simulation"

They could tweak the engine as they have for LMU for other disciplines and sell those sims / games individually.

Two options are immediate. You license content, like in LMU or you go the ISI route and let the community mod all the content into what it was 'supposed' to be all along but, more likely, if you are doing specific disciplines / sims, you'd go after licensing so, modding would be out of the equation.

If at all, the most plausible way the 'community' would get their hands on it is, a coalition or consortium, with enough investment backing to purchase it. It would still need to be managed and operated. You'd kind of be into Simbin territory, kinda, sorta, and anything can happen good or bad. As good as their content was, the way the whole thing finished, and everything that evolved out of it (Simbin > Sector3 > SMS > the Simbin 2.0 / GTR 3 bust > KW Studios > PMS (Project Motor Sport ??) or whatever they're called now , it all always had a 'funk' around it to me that something about all of it wasn't on the up and up. Similar to me with the whole NR2003 / PWF, the F1RST and the lawsuits, iracing and Race2Play, which I thought was an amazing thing, shutting down.

Point is anything or everything can happen.

That's what's rattling around in my head.

 

[avenger82]

Devin made sense on this theme a couple of days ago (albeit LMU focused, but still pertinent):

View attachment 56705

rF1 did anything but die when it stopped updating, and it wasn't perfect or bug free or 'feature complete'. I don't know why a decade later as soon as a game isn't getting any updates (as redapg says, there's no confirmation either way, but I wouldn't hope for much personally) it's abandoned, dead, let's hope for a source release, etc.

There's a whole bunch of people still loving AC because it's easy to mod, has lots of content (fair bit of the quality stuff is ripped, mind you), despite the fact it's had no updates for years, and more importantly (from a simulation point of view) a lot of those mods are copy pasta physics, and all that activity does absolutely nothing for the devs (and therefore further development of any title, and to some extent even survival of game development studios).


There was a discussion on discord a few days ago of the "why don't they bring the updated GT3 cars to rF2 and make some money" kind... a staff member points out the income wouldn't recover the costs, and immediately it's questioned. Bear in mind the staff member knows much more info than any general game player, but there's so much cynicism.


Sims these days are so much more demanding from a development point of view, whether it's the game itself or the content, and people still want the cheap option. I'm cheap, I get it, but you can't have ongoing innovative development and the flexibility to only pay for the small amount you want. Had similar discussions regarding dedi servers in LMU; so much activity on rF2 has been on dedi servers and third party mod content, which gives nothing to the developers. But how dare they ask a modest amount to host a server (to be fair probably not even making much money on it, but it keeps things centralised and features (like skins) working properly).

But I digress...

That doesn’t make sense to me . Problem is not with simracers’ expectations, but with publishers/ studios not keeping their own promises, hyping their games to sell as much as possible on release , then fix critical bugs and issues , release some DLCs and shortly after abandon it. Perfect example for this in the sim world was Project Cars 1 and 2 and 3.
Now rF2 was a bit different , but the hype was there , especially for the "hardcore " simracers, modders etc. , but they were mostly disappointed. It’s development lasted much longer , but after the release it seemed to be at snail pace. Only after S397 took over content was released at significantly better pace, but quality not always was that great - as you would expect from first party DLC. But core game issues and bug fixing clearly weren’t their priority.
Of course graphics were significantly improved and eventually also the UI/UX. Also the competition system took so long to develop and essentially turned out to be a failure anyway. The current online system ( called Race control IIRC) is ok , but I think it was too late to attract new players and many others moved on long before that. Last time I checked there was virtually no participation.
Yes , some gamers ( in general not only simracers) will always complain for different reasons , but if a game is in EA , but otherwise is promising , then they can forgive a lot, as long as they see real progress . Look e.g. at AC, ACC (AC Evo is different of course) or even LMU.