rFactor 2 gets a boost as ISI announce a partnership with Luminis

peterchen said:
Who says I do no modding? :)
Just cant do 3D-graphic-stuff, like most others. So something like a full editor would help! :)
With GJED you cant do a full track, you know!? :)
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A 'full editor' isn't going to be the magic cure people think it to be. You can limit yourself like bobs tracks
builder, and you limit your results equally. Not what people want to hear obviously...
 
Lenniepen said:
That assumption is not correct.

Quote from Marcel Offermans at Racedepartment forum:
"If I may clarify my thoughts here a bit, as I feel there might be some misunderstanding:

1. The tyre model in rF2 is a great and really advanced model and our physics guys (Michael and Marek) obviously get great results with it. We will not drop it at all. In fact all current and future car physics we make will continue to use this model. You probably have seen the recent blog series about the BT44B that explains a lot about this model.

2. We are considering allowing the rF1 tyre model as an option for specific cars because we are aware that certain highly respected physics gurus get great results out of that model based on the models and data they have for real world cars.

3. In fact, in the future, if other tyre models emerge, we could consider integrating those as an option as well. The main thing to remember is that we're trying to be an open platform to the community. Yes, we are committed to providing the most realistic simulation. That will never change."
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Thanks for the clarification Lenniepen. The other smartar$es could learn a thing or two from you.

I still think that is a regressive move though. Wouldn't it be better to develop a system where developers
can, say as an example, drop in their rF1 tyre model into some sort of easy rf2 tyre converting program
& then they end up with rF2 standard tyres? Or better still, have a program that has a bulk of the
rF2 tyre modelling 'done' & where the developer only has to choose tyre & rim width, compound, material, tread etc
from a list of dropdown boxes. The program does the calculations quickly & spits out a 'standard' rF2 tyre based on the inputs.
The developer can then change the 'real time' setting to suit? Seems more logical than going back 10 years
because it's a little hard. Would rather they spent a little time making what they have 'easier' to work with...
 
Good points Obbzy.

If its the tyres that have indeed been the stumbling block for modders. Go one better and have the developers develop a range of tyres that the modders have access to and can use freely in their mods. Surely there is a database of tyres by now within ISI that can be relatively easily modified for various applications.
 
Seems that most are missing Marcel Offerman's argument #2 - which is valid even if we'd all prefer to get the latest and most updated features in all aspects of each mod.
 
Nope...got that. Being regressive for new mods is not going forward though. Mods representing vehicles that never had a radial tyre that is certainly applicable to and I happily applaud it. Mods representing vehicles that DO have radial tyres and NEED tyre deformation of the rf2 latest tyre model IS required, not optional. My former post still applies. The tyre model is time consuming to produce. Who better to produce it than the creators until a database of tyre attributes for modders is available so they can time effectively, produce their own. Information for modders and the tools to do so have been the major stumbling block IMO especially with the "new" technologies introduced.

NOT all modders are engineers and/or mathematicians.
 
I think it's important not to get too carried away with assumptions of what Marcel/Studio397 end up doing with this Tire "fallout", the one key word from his quote above is "considering" - that doesn't mean it's set in stone yet.

Also Marcel posted on RD last night that they will reveal monthly updates to their status and roadmap, so in time we will see their plans more clearly and no doubt this area will be covered extensively, after all they've openly stated they want to work with the community so no doubt feedback will be taken on board.
 
I think that is a very interesting idea to make the possibility of adding to rf2 different tire models -magic formula(rf1), brush model(rf2),rmod-k and other. New slogan rf2 - the open racing simulation. Very interesting
 
Boldaussie said:
Nope...got that. Being regressive for new mods is not going forward though. Mods representing vehicles that never had a radial tyre that is certainly applicable to and I happily applaud it. Mods representing vehicles that DO have radial tyres and NEED tyre deformation of the rf2 latest tyre model IS required, not optional. My former post still applies. The tyre model is time consuming to produce. Who better to produce it than the creators until a database of tyre attributes for modders is available so they can time effectively, produce their own. Information for modders and the tools to do so have been the major stumbling block IMO especially with the "new" technologies introduced.

NOT all modders are engineers and/or mathematicians.
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I doubt many new mods would use the simpler model, and there already is a collection of tyres ISI have provided, has been for a couple of years. Most mods can find an rF2 tyre very close to the right size (close enough for a little scaling to not break anything). I think the tyres are being overthought generally here, it's obviously come up from certain modders and they'd like to accommodate if possible (some modders get good data, but related to tyre performance rather than construction, and working backwards can't be easy) so we could strengthen the rF2 community by bringing in more people still stuck in rF1.

As sims like rF2 get more advanced you DO almost need to start thinking from an engineering standpoint rather than just playing with numbers; having the old tyre model option actually helps the 'casual' modder more, it's not a bad thing (but again - there is already a selection of tyres to choose from, and a good chance one that is basically immediately useable with a few grip/wear tweaks).
 
WiZPER said:
Seems that most are missing Marcel Offerman's argument #2 - which is valid even if we'd all prefer to get the latest and most updated features in all aspects of each mod.
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They are mostly missing point 3. Can't understand how having different tire models in your "open simulator" is a bad thing. Oh the simracing community.
 
Will Mazeo said:
They are mostly missing point 3. Can't understand how having different tire models in your "open simulator" is a bad thing. Oh the simracing community.
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That too, yes. rF2 have had some brilliant 3PA tracks, some made possible in coorporation with other developers using gmotor2 - to make it easier for this to happen with vehicles, supporting the older tyre model is essential.
 
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peterchen said:
Calm down Mrslfrsl:) You just dont know at the moment what will change and what wont!
I dont think that Studio397 will repeat the heavy mistakes ISI did.
They have to push the features and tell everybody how good that is! Otherwise - you are right - nobody will leave theire old sim for the "new" rF2. You have to bring arguments.
But like I said: they will be smart enough for that. The european business-mentality will be good for rF2.

For the tyre model: I personally dont think that the ability to use rF1-tyres would be a proper argument for anybody (users+modders) to switch to rF2. Not at this point. Maybe it would have been when it where an option right from the beginning. But now its waaaaaay too late.
The point is: if you want to attract modders, do something for them! Make it easy for them!
Provide good and solid modding-tools and databases!
I would go THAT far to offer a full fletched track-editor for example! You can charge for it, no problem!
But the opportunity and possibility itself would attract thousands of people who wants to create something. Many people would try that. And it would push rF2 as a whole miles forward!

Glad to hear by the way that they see the necessity for a whole series in rF2! Very good! Makes me exciting!

Nothing more to say for me: provide the proper tools, provide nice visual possibilities (modding is always presentation!) and modders will come!
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I completely agree and so have I said so several times

Enviado desde mi ONE A2001 mediante Tapatalk
 
WiZPER said:
That too, yes. rF2 have had some brilliant 3PA tracks, some made possible in coorporation with other developers using gmotor2 - to make it easier for this to happen with vehicles, supporting the older tyre model is essential.
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That is just a step 10 years backwards in time and waste of recources, instad to focus on what is there and push it forward. As far as racing goes those are not even comparable. Maybe for your 10 min sunday drive yes. Once you race and see how you can exploit the tires just makes me want to throw away the whole rig. It is complete the opposite direction of what I would have hoped for and makes no sense left and right. Could aswell go and race AC then but wont happen, that's how much desire there is for it.
 
Boldaussie said:
Well there you go. :) Thanks Woodee. I stand well corrected. So its not the tyres stopping modders developing in rf2.
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Wow, you go from not knowing about some pre-created tires to "factually" stating it isn't stopping modders developing in rF2. Don't you think there is more to it than that?
 
Personally I think there are less modders around nowadays.

rFactor 1 came in without too much competition and inspired a lot of modders to get started. From there modder teams were born. Many haven't moved out of their comfort zone of rFactor 1 or have just stopped making mods as their real life has taken priority. rFactor 2 launched into a much more competitive space with many other sims (many based on their own gmotor engine).

With much more content provided by ISI (way more than they made last time in rFactor 1), I feel some are just content with what they have, and don't feel they need to create more.

Another adding thing is that rFactor 2 modding is way more complex than rFactor 1. No fudging calculations here! There are tools, spreadsheets, documentation but people just keep saying that is still not enough. Is it not enough because it is not done in a few clicks and there is more hard work and research to do before your mod springs to life? Maybe. There is way more documentation for rFactor 2 than there ever was for rFactor 1. Maybe because of the unnecessary hard critics of some modders creations and the backlash they receive... many probably think "Why should I bother spending my free time creating something if everyone is just going to act so entitled and ungrateful!?".
 
In sim racing simulation now there is so much choice, unlike when rf1 was popular

There's less incentive to build ones favourite track or car as there's so much instantly available

This is a good thing of course as it means sim racing is popular & has a strong following

People want good polished features now
 
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All of this good news was too much for me to comment on until now. It almost brought tears of joy and relief to my eyes. The joy is because no other title will come close if this is done right. I'm sure it will be done right. The relief is because of the new graphics. If this will look like other driving titles I have or better, RF2 is the future instead of just a hope or a wish. I cant even type everything I want to type because I keep thinking of positive things that might happen and it is distracting in a good way.
 
Skan said:
All of this good news was too much for me to comment on until now. It almost brought tears of joy and relief to my eyes. The joy is because no other title will come close if this is done right. I'm sure it will be done right. The relief is because of the new graphics. If this will look like other driving titles I have or better, RF2 is the future instead of just a hope or a wish. I cant even type everything I want to type because I keep thinking of positive things that might happen and it is distracting in a good way.
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I hope that will happen, but it might be a long process. iRacing moved to DX11 quite a while ago, but it's only now that they are previewing some concrete new stuff like dynamic lighting. The first port to DX11 they had, it basically looked identical to their DX9 mode. rF2 has lots of mods which will not adopt to new shaders over night, some of them never will, so that further slows the transition down.

The problem with rF2 is that they lost most of the modders to AC by wrong decisions that were made several years ago. It would have been the right move to allow rF1 tires at least for a transition period when rF2 was released in 2012, now it's kind of late for that move to have substantial impact. They need to get the players back first, then modders, which will be difficult.
 
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