Rfactor 2 future: Should we (or just I) be worried?

You can think whatever you want, doesn't make it true though

 

So did I but apparently people are happy with it it seems.
It looks to me like the perfect rookie league car.
When you are racing something as loose as the Megane and able to put it through it's paces you wouldn't be bothering with the Radical, or anything that just challenges you to find the lowest lap time but without ever getting sweaty hands while at it.

Fat chance, most of them just try to make something that becomes popular.
And ususally it involves trying to learn (and copy) from other modder's successes.
There's a few enthusiasts out there that really are to be applauded for their efforts at bringing untamed and raw experience to us.
That's not to say one cannot go too far with it.
I personally find the RF2 Skippie to be an example of going too far.

 

It's a bit of a fair stretch to say that all sportscars are easy to drive and especialy cars that rely heavily on downforce are quite difficult to handle at lower speeds. I remember a quite interesting review from a journalist, who made an F1 test with Renault at Paul Richard a few years ago and it was quite interesting to read that the difficult thing for him was to get his mindset to drive the thing fast to make the aero work - an advice by the test team aswell. Tbh, I don't get the feeling that I am driving on snow in any of the sims with my crappy DFGT and simply knowing that I have to be careful with cars that rely on downforce in slow corners and to apply throttle inputs carefully, helps alot to not find yourself facing the wrong way too often even if there are still challenging situations like the F2 through the slow sections at Interlagos for example. Another reason why modern GT and sportscars are relatively easy to drive is the implementation of TC and ABS and even if those systems aren't installed, alot can be done with throttle and engine mapping these days. You can be sure a 1000hp F1 car from the mid eighties was a handfull to drive compared to a 1000hp F1 car from today. I would be carefull to generalize things and say, if you are loosing the car easily that it is automaticly wrong. It all depends on the car, the track conditions and the driver him/herself.

 

Still just a video game that simulates driving a car...
Enjoy it for what it is.
Huge progress has been made with this game, and more to come.
The problem with arguing about this is right and that is not, is you are quoting your personal preference.
We are all different, thus we have different feel for cars etc.
If the are using real data, then it is what it is.
No more, no less.
Maybe the problem is with, you and I...

 

Realism is everything for me. That's why I'm only driving rF2 because I have the impression that ISI and now Studio 397 do everything for realism. E.g. development for the Brabham BT44B takes time because of realism. Should Studio 397 go the route like all or most other simracing market contenders, and releasing content quick without realistic car models - I will completely give up my simracing hobby. I do not see any reason why I should drive unrealistic and easy to drive modeled content (only to feel better?)
I could also play an old Tric-O-Tronic (Game&Watch) thingy.

Realism is everything!!!!

 

IMO realism is when you need to use real driving techniques to drive something that require these driving techniques in real life. Is not about hard or easy, for example a GT3 is one of the easiest car, but you will never see an AM driver win against a field of PRO drivers, simply because PRO drivers have skills and drive faster.

I heard someone say the Nissan GT500 is too easy, and then i saw a difference of 5-6 seconds per lap. This car was made to go fast, it has ages of automotive development under the bodywork. It's safe, permissive, but you need real driving techniques to go fast. Easy to drive, hard to master.

 

I know, thats why i would like to read more experienced players opinions on this subject.
I´m for realism too but i was wondering these days if at some point, software engineers has to... how do i say... "smooth the reality" (hope people understand this). Real life drivers has ton of more info from g forces than most of sim players to drive in the limit, in my opinion, to predict and feel car behavior. Few people can afford good motions sim rigs.
Most of us only have visual hints and ffb of the wheel.

 

use to make me smile when iracing would claim that a certain sim car was ultra realistic due to the large amount of data then had when building it & direct feed back from actual real world drivers etc
then few seasons later it would get a few updates and feel like a totally different car ( sometimes better sometimes worse )

.......so which was the ultra realistic version ?

+I have about different 5 ffb systems ( I use 100% a bodnar V2 now ) each through ffb delivery can make the same sim car very different

 

Maybe not only to feel better but better representing your real life driving skills in a simulator with only the visuals and wheel ffb. I imagine

 

this happen a lot in the past here. Then ISI made some update the mod and then it become 110% real

 

This is what I wonder too, even if a physic engine works perfectly accurate with real life values I wonder if it's "real" without the g forces "talking" to us.
You'd need to ask a real life driver if they drive the same style in the real car and also when they are in the milion dolar simulators or if they need to change it to avoid results that would be unrealistic in a real car due to lack of g force

 

I don't remember who was, but a driver (a well-known and fast driver (rally?)) said that to drive fast you need to feel the car with the butt!

I was lucky to take part on a track day as a passenger (wasn't a 800cv car but neither a slow car, was a 280cv tuned Alfa Giulietta QV), driver was pushing hard, and even in a 70kmh hairpin the g forces were crazy! I was able to feel the tires limit without hold the steering wheel. After some days i tried some motion simulators, you have a feedback yes, but your butt can feel certain behaviors only on a real car.

 

Motion rigs won't improve any driving skill.
Driving in the limit is something related to tire-track interaction. Hence FFB is the most informative part of the feedback that a driver receives. Sound is also an important information. G forces vary a lot between different track conditions and turning speeds to be considered something relevant. In fact, it is clear IMO that simracers go closer to the limit that in real life where the consequences of an error are considerably bigger.

 

Ok... keep thinking TopGear is the truth then, its your choice.

 

I don't know why people think that physics models can't be objectively meassured and that they "should feel right for the consumer" in an expense of proper use of data. Ofcourse it is impossible to take everything into account, but especialy with tools like MoteC it should be the aim to create a model that follows natural laws without simplifiying important aspects and adding more stuff like more grip to balance stuff like the lack of gforces. I also think that you can apply a quite scientific approach to something as being "realistic". For now, the SR3 RSX is propably the most realistic rendition/model of this car that you can find in any consumer sim, until a new model of it - especialy physcis model gets published independ of wich sim we are talking about. My 2 cents ...

 

But something like this happened with the mods i pointed: CorvettesISI/URDCorvettes, F1 Marussia, F1 2012. Not being negative to the modders, quite the oppositte: they bring much more users in leagues. Even paying (Urd) having "the most accurate version" for free

 

That's completely true although I'd say with all your senses.
Your labyrinth is very sensitive to speed and direction changes as well.
Also everyone will claim they used real life data for their car, it's a great marketing tool because everyone expects to read that otherwise they lose interest immediately.
They do not have to be lying, they just have to tamper with it.
Like the Apex Camaro vs the ISI Camaro or the Enduracer's mod and the inertia values etc.
So what was the real data in the Enduarcer's, before the update or after the update.
I had been karting since 17, I did a few laps in the karts in RF2 and lost interest.
I'm OK with that, they are tuned to be challenging and fun, they sound realistic as well but do not drive like the real thing.

On a last note, race driving is a million miles different to thrashing your car on the road.
The level of performance of a race car on a race track is mind boggling (if you can get a little bit close to the limit) and your senses at first refuse to believe the speed and forces your body is having to deal with.
Your eyesight cannot cope either and the fast parts of the track are just a blur.
It takes a few hours of driving for your senses to adjust and your eyesight to clear up so the track surroundings actually take shape.
Actually Prost mentioned that when he got back into F1 with Williams after taking a year off, he was asked what it felt like and if it was like he had never been away and he commented on the need for his senses,particularly his eyesight, to readjust to it.

 

I drove the Radical again last night, proper this time out.
First time was at Silverstone.
I have noticed that most cars feel very different at Silverstone because it is a wide, flat, smooth track.
GP3 for example, the car is a bit of handful on tracks like Malaysia or Estoril, constantly having to correct it.
At Silverstone the car makes a lot more sense.
So at Toban short and Oulton it was satisfying to drive as I expected.
Dare I say challenging?
Like I said earlier, the perfect car for fun and rookie leagues.
You CAN actually lose the car over fast bumpy surfaces, it will get upset over bumps and if you do not react to that and keep the throttle planted things can actually go wrong.
So let's do some more driving first to get a clearer picture.
Hope they fix the FFB thing, I had to raise FFB smoothing to 7 to stop the uncontrollable rattling whenever I centered the steering wheel on a Thrustmaster T150.

 

I'm glad you realized you need to drive a car more than 10 minutes before judging the car, game and the developers.

 

Guys need to realise as well that this car is quite underpowered compared to some cars,its light yes,but then it has downforce,this car shouldn't really be that hard to drive imho,double the bhp then we could really discuss if this car is supposed to kill you or not