rfactor 2 Car models and lighting

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by FONismo, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    Yes this game is for modding just as much as rf1 but with more emphasis on ISI releasing their own mods, that's what I was getting at.
     
  2. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    EXACTLY

    +1000000000000000000000000000000

    Having 9 million polygons per car and being able to look at a suspension spring from 2 inches away without seeing a pixel is such a waste of processing power when it could be used for more simulation stuff like:

    The tyre model
    aerodynamics
    vehicle dynamics
    motor modeling/physics
    transmission modeling/physics
    damage modelling/physics
    Realroad
    Weather
    Rain/wetness

    Then, there is the sound engine itself and the HUGE amount of physics involved with modeling sound

    Then there is the complex way everything listed above (plus many other things) INTERACT AND AFFECT ONE ANOTHER.

    The most powerful industrial racing, flight and according to what I read, military sims, that have 20 supercomputers powering them, have decent at best graphics, because they are true proper sims with most of their processing power going towards simulation, yet us with 1 "normal" pc running our software, want so much of our computing power go towards graphics, and it does. That's sad.
     
  3. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    Don't compare very complex CFD calculations to the relative simple math calculations from racing games, lol.

    LFS for example did already a lot of those things a lot of years ago, and running with a crappy computer. Obviously graphics were ****, but that was 8 years ago...
     
  4. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    No reason you can't have both great physics simulation with great graphics and just because there are no (or very few) examples exist in the world doesn't mean it isn't possible. Today's graphics engines can be built to run 99% on the graphics card alone, leaving as much computational power remaining for all that wonderful physics modelling.

    I understand ISI's ptiorities are towards the physics as a whole and (at least) I would not be here if that was not their ethos as is proof that as pretty as pCars really is (minus the blur, etc) I have not touched it for more than 0.1% of the time I've spent on rF2 beta. My only hope is that as much as the physics continues to evolve both in and outside of the beta, that the same will also occur in the graphics department.
     
  5. tjc

    tjc Member

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    +1

    I`m perfectly prepared to admit that I`m not as knowledgeable as some on here about how these sims work but I don`t see any real reason why we can`t have stunning graphics coupled with fantastic, very realistic physics...

    I`m very much into good, realistic physics, that`s why I too love rf2 and have fallen away from some other titles (past and present) but I also want (is demand to strong a word?) good, high quality graphics in my sims and I don`t see at all why we can`t have both.

    If high quality graphics is not important to certain individuals then ask ISI to give you a big ugly looking chunky box that has exceptional physics to drive around...

    Each to their own, by all means, but I`d like to have the full package of high quality graphics and realistic physics and I don`t think that`s too much to ask for personally. :)
     
  6. Abriel Nei

    Abriel Nei Registered

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    Racing games have simple math calculations because we don't have PCs that are fast enough to run the proper formulas in real time. Meaning we get approximations of the real values because only with that simplified math calculations you can actually play the game in real time.

    Just an example of how much power you need for CFD of one F1 car:
    "... I would say, 96 to 128 GB RAM is the minimum as long as other codes don't need significantly less memory.

    For solving, I would stick to a cluster. Solving of a 120 million cells mesh on 256 cpu's took about 20 hours..."

    That is only aerodynamics for one car (never mind driver input, damage, weather, real road, opponents, AI, networking, etc).

    I doubt there is someone here that would enjoy "playing" the game where you had to wait 20 hours just to see the car turn into a corner! :D

    PS: Its not really comparing apples to apples but you get the point. Math is complex!
     
  7. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    +1 to DRr1per

    I don't even understand why there must be any posts about gfx vs physics priority. to me 'i dont care about realistic gfx' like post are not in place here.
    if someone has feeling that rf2 is behind regarding physics, feel free to start another thread. but let other to discuss gfx issues.
     
  8. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    And that's what I said, our physics are pretty much simplified. There is space for both graphics and (current) physics.
     
  9. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Exactly! I was kind of expecting just that from Spinelli anyway. But as with above this is not about physics, the physics now F2 and modern F1 aside are at a good point. It's time to start shifting some more focus on visuals. Physics guys are physics guys and the artists are you know...They don't do the same thing, so saying we would rather see work here and here instead of visuals are pointless to be frank. They can both be done in tandem.

    I would just love to see better models and shaders, reflections that's all i'm saying
     
  10. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Take a look at rfactor 1 in the early days -graphics got much better with some of the quality mods that followed (modded had time to "tinker" etc)

    For me graphics right now isn't much of a concern, a decent level that consistent & optimised is what's important to me as I know better looking visuals is no doubt to come

    Physics are number 1 priority to me ( over content & gfx) at the moment, once they are sorted lets get out of dreaded beta !
     
  11. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    I think physics are the priority for say 99% of people here Adrian, we all wouldn't be racing rF2 otherwise. But as said physics guys are physics guys, they can still do that but the artists can still push the models, shaders, reflections and textures in tandem. I think rF2 is looking good now and running sweet but it could look even better, that's the point. Don't get things twisted, noone is making visuals a priority here but for me it's needed
     
  12. Knight of Redemption

    Knight of Redemption Registered

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    It is a simple fact that those of us with the latest gen graphics cards, and especially those with two or even three in SLI or Crossfire are not seeing anything like the level of quality we could. Now I love rF2, I enjoy the hell out of the way it feels, but unless we see some movement towards using the power of our graphics cards to add some much needed shine then the door is open for another company to steal the limelight.

    Now maybe that is on the cards (no pun intended) but thanks to ISI's refusal to open up and tell us what they are doing we don't know and threads like this will be posted over and over again. Their reasoning for being so closed mouthed is flawed, it has been stated that if they give us some kind of road map they will be flooded with complaints about not meeting deadlines, doing things in the wrong order blah blah blah. Sure some may do that, but hells bells, the amount of complaining about them not doing it is constant and never ending. So what is the difference? I don't like to compare but...and we all know what comes next, I don't even have to say it.
     
  13. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    I believe that announcing some deadlines would raise liability issues for ISI. If they would say that this and this happens then, they would be liable if it does not happen after all. At current situation, where they have not promised anything, they still got their money as long as they release the game some time next year(?).

    I personally do not have much to complain in the current situation. There are some content to go around and the quality is something I have never came accross previously. Yes there should be much more of everything later on and yes I would be even happier if the progress would have been faster. I only complain the lack of time to play this game :D and also multiplayer that suits my skill level (--> driving with some aids on :p).

    And for the people who demands better visuals: You can not expect one game to fullfill all your needs. It's an ideal, not sure if ISI has resources for this. I personally like the graphics, maybe little bit more colour would be nice. You can play other games with great graphics and come back to play rf2 when you want great gameplay again ;)
     
  14. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    hmm, I cannot remember ANY company openning up and telling clients what they actually do and how exactly they are going to proceede with their work.
    Even individuals (like me) reserve their right to change plans, change priorities to achieve their goal and it would be plainly stupid of them to announce everything publickly and stick to this one plan (that may well prove wrong).
    As for the amount of complaining, again Im not sure is a valid point, as you can clearly see that one complainer, at the end, may make more fuss than hundreds of supporters.

    Of course there are many things a lot of people would like to see achieved, but this is no end product and imho is unfair to judge it as if it was.
    As for comparing, you would do that anyway, ISI open or not, wouldnt you ;)

    All the above does not wish to demean valid critisism or propositions of course.
     
  15. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Yes colour is something i feel is missing. I have been messing around with the SweetFX Injectors the last few nights trying to find a good balance for my taste. Blacks need boosting in rF2, blacks look grey right now. I want a bit more exposure and better blacks. I will post my SweetFX settings in a new dedicated thread later. My settings are geared towards getting more punch for dusk and dawn more than daylight though. Using some bloom and stuff i feel looks better
     
  16. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    FON
    - point taken & understood,

    I've not been able to try build 118 yet (due to sim rig being upgraded), but I detect a growing frustration due to slow progress,

    I can relate to this myself.
    Rfactor 2 does show some brilliancy however & its quite an ambitious project.

    Would be great if ISI could at this point step it up a bit, not because of community impatience but to avoid the possibility of being in beta to the point of the majority of people simply losing interest, there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel at all at this point.

    That's my only gripe really.

    Perhaps the internal team at ISI are quite frustrated & it's impossible for them to give some indication or a new approx target date?
     
  17. John.Persson

    John.Persson Registered

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    Well, a "game" needs to be sold too. And not all people want to upgrade their computers to the latest for every title and so on.

    ISI push for new standards in physics department, hopefully they will bring it up a notch in visuals after gold when we have a base to work from.
     
  18. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    There is no reason you can not cater for both. Why make the guys that want the candy suffer? If it scales well enough and is done properly then i don't think this is a vaild excuse not to push further with models etc.
     
  19. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    Excatly, thats what LODs are for is'nt it? you can still create amazing looking models but control the Level Of Detail so lower end machines can still run them just fine, that way the best machines get what they want and the older machines get what they can handle...simples!
     
  20. Knight of Redemption

    Knight of Redemption Registered

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    I said nothing about deadlines and yes there are many examples of developers keeping people abreast of what they are up to, things their customers have to look forward to and tasters of what is to come. Here we have a clear case of what is wanted, an improvement in the look, colours sorted, metal to look like metal, a little shine here and there, I don't expect date and time, that is asking for trouble. But I have banged this gong before and ISI by way of Tim are clear that the Mushroom approach (tongue in cheek there) is what they feel is right for them. Okay we have to live with it but that means we are going to bang on about until it is done...I'm afraid the response to silence is very rarely silence...
     

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