rfactor 2 Car models and lighting

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by FONismo, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    First off Build 118 for me personally has been a really good update with some great optimization across the board and IMO all the cars feel very very different this build for the better. I feel like i have 2 new cars for the sim with the Nissans. I moaned a few weeks back to Tim about the sim being overly open wheeler focussed. This was largely down to the both the Nissans previously not convincing me really to enjoy them. This build both feel really great and as said it feels like i have new content.

    That aside though the car models right now are lacking somewhat. ISI tracks have been generally good IMO, Brianza looks great, Monaco i don't think looks great. Spa looks good trees aside. But the car models let this sim down right now. The BT20 is better but in comparison to the recently released shots of iRacings Lotus 49, it's just not there. Look at the 49 model below, it looks bloody fantastic and quite detailed. Not sure i have seen a model that good yet from iRacing. Something says to me that they realise they have to step their game up and look at the results. I hope we get models that look as detailed as that. The BT20 while the best model for rF2 is just not even upto the levels of iRacings.

    I don't want pCARS levels as frankly their game car models aside i don't think visually is anything really. But a good car model can make a difference. Maybe someone can comment with regards to how better shaders/reflections would help with improving the current car models. I mean just installing one of the community skins for the GTR makes a substantial difference to the GTR model.

    We need much much higher res textures aswell for all the cars. The EVE F1 is not to bad in cockpit with textures to be fair but the Nissans, Clio etc look so low res in the cockpit. Maybe this would be better as a seperate thread but really i think it's time to step the game up visually now with the models. Btw i really like rF2's lighting during the day, feels really convincing to me, dusk and dawn however feel so flat and just look odd, cool shadows aside. The lighting in general is getting better and better as said more so for during the day, which is beginning to match iRacings IMO, and at times looks better. iRacings lighting is better for my taste than the overhyped pCARS graphic engine. I don't think pCARS looks realistic, I think rF2 has better day lighting for a start. But the morning and late afternoon lighting looks really odd IMO in rF2. Sometimes if you get the right momment the lighting looks more suited to something you would see in the desert for instance with sunrise, with it's bright red lighting, can be seen in the video below, 1st sector of the lap, all the armco is lit up basically red. The horizon though with the deep blue/yellowish hue, looks really convincing.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2012
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  2. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    Absolutely.
     
  3. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    It has to be said. iRacing looks absolutely stunning. I've never tried it before because rF2 managed to trap me before i could blink to try anything else. But i do hope rF2 receives a face-lift in the near future. Looking at the Brabham in that pic, looks the same insane poly quality as in P-Cars. The lighting and color palette is really nice, the scenery is made up of a really nice mix of photo-realistic textures and the skid-mark effects are to die-for.

    There is absolutely no reason for a sim to not be-able to full fill the two halves of a game. Quality gameplay mechanics + Quality graphics. In the hard-core sim racing game department, with what many have said, rF2 wins hands down. Graphics, iRacing2.0 instantly wins.

    In the race to produce the next racing simulation....who will win at achieving both?
     
  4. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    The actual model itself looks really smooth and quite close to pCARS models. But the detail in the car, i.e the suspension, gearbox etc is not even close to what SMS are doing, but it's quite a bit more than the BT20 has in rF2. But that iRacing model IMO is more than enough for a sim like rFactor2, it looks great. And i hope we get models like this and i hope someone can maybe comment on it. rFactor 2 could look better than that! For a start, iRacings chrome is not that great, it's reflecting the sky correctly as you can see with the blueish hue but it lacks that extra something still. But the model looks a decent poly count for iRacing
     
  5. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Not sure, but this looks pretty detailed to me ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  6. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    It looks really low res too me. And gets even worse when you go close in
     
  7. RMachucaA

    RMachucaA Registered

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    To be honest, i think its mostly down to the lack of experience in whoever made the mods they are including in rf2, I had a look at some of the source files for the nissan GTR for example, and its an outright mess, 5 gazillion textures, no real coherence in how they are done, and probably is costing everyone a few fps at the minimum considering how much optimization\improvements could be made to it.

    They dont want to pay a pro 3d artist to do the models they got for free (or paid very little for) and it shows, both in the 3d model quality and the materials\textures.

    On the BT20 for example, the body shader is incredibly blah, huge specular highlight as if it was matt paint, contrasting color palette\hues for several parts of the car, all mismatched (same for the other older f1's actually). You know the saying, you get what you pay for, and they certainly did get what they paid (if any?) for :p.

    ISI should hire a pro to do one car to show off what their engine can do, as is right now its letting the product down.
     
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  8. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    AFAIK the majority of the cars you have right now, aren't the MODEL spec of the newer stuff, like the F2 and the Brabham. Those are the only two cars you have with the better quality models (in cockpit and out). I don't think they will revisit the older 3D models unless they have an abundance of spare time.

    As far as the skins, well the EVE was supposed to be something else, as was the Spark. Permission, not a license, was given for them to be in the software, then that went away, so a replacement skin was put in. The other cars, except the F2 and Brabham again, are also running replacement skins in-place of real ones. We expect a lot of people to run their own skins in leagues, etc, anyway, and that's why the skin distribution system is being rewritten as we type.

    Hope that gives some background on the why, although it doesn't alter anything at this stage.
     
  9. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    With the exception of some skins on the F2, I believe all the models and skins were made by the same person, who is full-time, just at different times. Also made to different guidelines as the product was moving forwards. Some of the models, such as the EVE, were the first ones in the software, and we are talking 2009 there.
     
  10. feels3

    feels3 Member

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    Texturing and modeling technique didn't change since 2009 ;)

    I suppose ISI had different target (poly count, text resolution etc.) in 2009.
     
  11. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

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    I don't mind high quality cars, but the problem as I see it is that such car (like iRacing Lotus) just doesn't fit its environment. Tracks are light years away from such quality as what the cars represent. We are talking about CryEngine level of detail here where such car would fit into. Thats why I like to see such cars represent in environments that make justice for the cars. Gran Turismo 5 showroom/menu design is good example, it is just lovely. While playing the actual game, detailed bolt holding headers in place is just completely irrelevant when you don't even have separate leafs in the trees.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Tim, so we can not expect models that will match that 49 above from iRacing in the future? I know it's a silly question as you possibly don't know yourself. But while the F2 and Brabham are better, they are still not good enough IMO for rFactor2. Really look at that 49 in comparison to the BT20.

    The F2 looks ok, but once you get close up it's pretty low poly and low res IMO. For me much much higher res cockpits for all cars would be a great start but the models needs improving big time, new models i mean. I understand it's hard to go back and do older content
     
  13. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    No, that is NOT what I said.

    Yes, as did every other dev. A quick look at the iRacing cars (still in the software) from earlier release can show that.
     
  14. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    As would the 49 skin, I expect. Can't comment on the model apart from what I know of ours.
     
  15. tjc

    tjc Member

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    Firstly I have to agree with you Nismo on the two Nissan`s. Unfortunately real life has been getting in the way a little since the new build has been on the scene and I haven`t been able to do as much driving/testing as I`d like to have done but with the little I have done I can tell there is a difference with them for sure. They feel much more "connected" now, for want of a better word...

    I also agree that the car models are lacking atm but I`m hopefull (as we all are I`m sure) that this will recieve the attention it deserves as time goes by.

    I can see what your saying about the trees at Spa and some of the stuff at Monaco too but I would say that I think ISI`s tracks are pretty damn good for many other things. They provide good immersion imo as they are and I think they`ll really kick into life with some more work on the things we have both mentioned. I know you and some others think that feels3`s tracks are better than ISI`s atm and whilst I think feels3`s tracks are amazingly good I still think the historic tracks done by ISI hold something special, for me anyway but yes there are areas where they could be improved.

    The iracing 49 does look good indeed and it would be good to have this kind of look/graphics in rf2 as compared to the pCARS look which I too think is a bit OTT for my tastes... when I first tried pCARS I really liked the look they were achieveing but it`s just too glossy for me now. I think those screens of the iracing 49 are maybe a bit over saturated (or something) but the model does look good for sure. I`m sure with time rf2 will match this, I certainly hope so anyway...

    We do need much more high res textures in rf2, especially for the cars as you`ve mentioned but this is another thing I`m sure will come with a bit more time.

    Imo rf2 is getting there (or will get there) for all the things youv`e mentioned and dawn/dusk does need a bit of attention indeed but iirc Tim said that the graphics will be getting worked on when other things the team are working on at present get finished up.

    I`m very hopeful that rf2 will be an excellent sim that provides all the things we want with more time given to the team to achieve these things.

    I know a lot of people think it`s all taking too long as it is but I`m willing to wait and give rf2 the time it deserves to be one of the best sims out there...

    I really do think (and certainly hope) that given this time, rf2 will kick some serious butt in the future.

    Btw, I know your post wasn`t a "hurry up" post Nismo I just think the things we have both mentioned will be addressed by ISI with time. :)
     
  16. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Sure i understand regrading the skin but look at the detail of the suspension and gearbox of the 2nd shot and how smooth the body is.
     
  17. tjc

    tjc Member

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    I think this comment is pretty rude tbh and suggests that you think ISI or at least their moddelers are not professionals even though they do it for a living...
     
  18. DmitryRUS

    DmitryRUS Registered

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    they all want a higher resolution textures ... Use the fact that there is, rF2 is plenty of room for creativity, do what you want from what is. Meanwhile ISI finish until your product.
    Of my wishes, set up the lighting and shadows make more contrast in the mode without HDR.
     
  19. feels3

    feels3 Member

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    Thanks Tim for negative rep... I thought that we can normally talk about graphics, but it looks like we can't.

    There was nothing negative in my post.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2012
  20. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    It also does a good job of setting my mood for the rest of the day. Walking away from the forum until tomorrow.
     

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