rFactor 2 and McLaren - World’s Fastest Gamer!

Marcel Offermans said:
Point taken guys, we will take this feedback into account. I hope we can incorporate it when we do the GT3 pack release.
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Thanks for the quick reply Marcel. Sorry to ask a bit more but I missed to understand what you refer to. Do you mean some better multipliers will be included for fuel, tire usage and new features for adjusting pit times? Or do you mean that future cars will have some "open features" to be editable and non encrypted (like skins)?
Or both which would be best for leagues and organized race competition in general? :)

I bet that organizing things like WFG, and hopefully what will come next with new UI, will provide S397 with a much closer view to the problems leagues have encountered in the past. The cut track review for Silverstone is a good example of how important is that the game controls this with a fair and effective criteria. The finals of WFG was a very nice race to see in this aspect. As an spectator I just missed the possibility to check how many penalties did each driver get. I could see some cars going over the limits and I wondered if they were being penalised. I wish we could get some info regarding this in the future. Let me suggest, if you haven't thought about this, to include by the name tag for driving mode and in the information panel in TV/broadcasting mode.

Thanks for your time.
 
I think there are already more than enough types of cars in rFactor, with open physics files, to use for educational purposes. And if you want data for a specific car, then, well, you can try to gather it on your own.
 
Idk... under current player base size I dont think it's smart from a business side to release a licensed GT3 grid (not just a single car as an example) totally open, especially when so much people complain a paid DLC is being released. This is no charity.
Maybe if the community release the rest of GT cars the studio is not licensing would give a nice message to devs ;)
Anyway it's a GT3, not like there is much left to learn about these. They said the tire model will be available anyway, that's the most important part, the rest you should get emailing real life teams (and that is probably what S397 did, licensing a car not always mean the data will come with it).
Now if it was a new tech like a hybrid F1 car then yeah, I'd agree it had to be open.
 
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Will Mazeo said:
Idk... under current player base size I dont think it's smart from a business side to release a licensed GT3 grid (not just a single car as an example) totally open, especially when so much people complain a paid DLC is being released. This is no charity.
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You are totally missing the point. This is not about 397 providing a full gt3 car so modders could copy a gt3 chassis to create another car with it. This about all new and old features that in future won't be available for modders because they won't share that info. Also when 397 took over there was talk about building some kind of tire database so modders would have something to work with. An official gt3 tire would be great thing to have as it gives a solid starting point. Now it seems the direction has changed. Instead of building some kind of tire database the data is actually hidden away with the specific aim of keeping it out of the hands of modders. Does this mean all other future physics stuff is going to be kept outside of modders as well? If yes then it is no longer a modding platform. Did we just hear the bombs fall? I was hoping 397 would bring a change. I don't see it. I see the exact same thing that was before.
 
T1specialist said:
You are totally missing the point. This is not about 397 providing a full gt3 car so modders could copy a gt3 chassis to create another car with it. This about all new and old features that in future won't be available for modders because they won't share that info. Also when 397 took over there was talk about building some kind of tire database so modders would have something to work with. An official gt3 tire would be great thing to have as it gives a solid starting point. Now it seems the direction has changed. Instead of building some kind of tire database the data is actually hidden away with the specific aim of keeping it out of the hands of modders. Does this mean all other future physics stuff is going to be kept outside of modders as well? If yes then it is no longer a modding platform. Did we just hear the bombs fall? I was hoping 397 would bring a change. I don't see it. I see the exact same thing that was before.
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It's funny you kept out the part about the tires being made public in my post yet complained about it not being shared....
And they also said a version of the Camaro compatible with current cars would be made. Isn't that sharing with modders?
I mean sure ISI/S397 makes questionable decisions sometimes (and man ISI did quite a lot of them :D ), but let's be honest when they do the right thing (at least they said they'd do), it's not like the pack was finished yet, if not for the WFG competition we wouldn't get an unfinished McLaren released before the official thing, neither Zand. So treat it as "pack/updated features are not yet released", seems like common sense to do it, to me at least
 
Lgel said:
Do you work for S397?
If so, you answer is appalling, not any attempt to help the modder.
RF2 is where it is for good reasons.
Cheers.
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Documentation could be much better, but you have seen how many people ask questions that are directly answered by comments in the moddev example files? Half an hour studying a file's comments is enough to work out pretty much everything in it, in the context of what it is (if you're trying to work out engines/turbos without an understanding of what a torque curve is, what engine braking is, how a turbo's performance is measured, etc, you're in for a battle, and that goes for all the types of files (tyres, HDV, ...). The game doesn't teach the basics, but its nature means it can't shortcut those things).

Many 'beginning modders' can't be bothered spending that half hour, and they might give up; but how long does it take to make a quality mod? I don't think they're actually looking to spend weeks properly making something. They want a 15 minute mod they can show their mates, but as sims get more advanced that's less and less likely.

On the other hand, we see some beginners come in here, ask questions, think for themselves, and end up releasing quality mods (tracks and cars). So it's not easy, but it's not impossible either.

However - documentation does need a lot of improving as I said, and there should be some better standards and a checklist of 'requirements' for functional content. It's sad to see people spend hours upon hours working on a track and then a sector timing point doesn't cover the whole track, or the pit entrance extends onto the track proper, etc. But when it comes to tyres, how many examples do you need exactly? It sounds like people want a library of tyres they can just choose from, slight resize maybe, and off they go. That might work as a starting point but it shouldn't be the goal.
 
Lazza said:
Documentation could be much better, but you have seen how many people ask questions that are directly answered by comments in the moddev example files? Half an hour studying a file's comments is enough to work out pretty much everything in it, in the context of what it is (if you're trying to work out engines/turbos without an understanding of what a torque curve is, what engine braking is, how a turbo's performance is measured, etc, you're in for a battle, and that goes for all the types of files (tyres, HDV, ...). The game doesn't teach the basics, but its nature means it can't shortcut those things).

Many 'beginning modders' can't be bothered spending that half hour, and they might give up; but how long does it take to make a quality mod? I don't think they're actually looking to spend weeks properly making something. They want a 15 minute mod they can show their mates, but as sims get more advanced that's less and less likely.

On the other hand, we see some beginners come in here, ask questions, think for themselves, and end up releasing quality mods (tracks and cars). So it's not easy, but it's not impossible either.

However - documentation does need a lot of improving as I said, and there should be some better standards and a checklist of 'requirements' for functional content. It's sad to see people spend hours upon hours working on a track and then a sector timing point doesn't cover the whole track, or the pit entrance extends onto the track proper, etc. But when it comes to tyres, how many examples do you need exactly? It sounds like people want a library of tyres they can just choose from, slight resize maybe, and off they go. That might work as a starting point but it shouldn't be the goal.
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If it is documented elsewhere (I believe the modder has questions about the lcd implementation of the Mc-Laren), a simple and courteous redirection to moddev/samples would have been nice.

RF2 owes a lot to modders, so being receptive to their needs and questions would be nice in my opinion.
Cheers.
 
Lgel said:
If it is documented elsewhere (I believe the modder has questions about the lcd implementation of the Mc-Laren), a simple and courteous redirection to moddev/samples would have been nice.

RF2 owes a lot to modders, so being receptive to their needs and questions would be nice in my opinion.
Cheers.
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Rf2 doesn't owe anyone anything,you choose to come and use the software,yes documentation is needed along with many other things,but attitudes like "they owe" us won't get you anywhere for good reason.
I'm not at all shocked that some official licenced content has its physics data locked,they paid money for that and letting other sims see it isn't very clever,even if the contract doesn't require it to be locked
 
Will Mazeo said:
It's funny you kept out the part about the tires being made public in my post yet complained about it not being shared....
And they also said a version of the Camaro compatible with current cars would be made. Isn't that sharing with modders?
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You are assuming the camaro physics or even just the tires will be made public. Nobody knows whether it will be public or not. And that really applies to all future graphics and physics features.

Like I said earlier we have no idea what new features is inside those mclaren files. We had a dev post who did not even acknowledge the whole question except that apparently they think we have "enough" info. In this case "enough" simply means "not having it".
 
T1specialist said:
You are assuming the camaro physics or even just the tires will be made public. Nobody knows whether it will be public or not. And that really applies to all future graphics and physics features.
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Dude.... Marcell himself said it (more than once). You are being dishonest...
 
patchedupdemon said:
Rf2 doesn't owe anyone anything,you choose to come and use the software,yes documentation is needed along with many other things,but attitudes like "they owe" us won't get you anywhere for good reason."
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Since 2012, without modders RF2 wouldn't have any series (only monotype races), most leagues race with mods (I suppose they have good reasons to do so, you are free to disagree).

So surely wrongly again, I suppose, RF2 brilliant situation regarding sales would be worse without third party content.

If you aren't grateful for persons that devote an inordinate amount of their free time, out of their passion for motor sports, to develop content, they share freely with you, it's your right. I am sure your attitude will "get you anywhere for good reason" as you say.

Cheers.
 
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Lgel said:
Since 2012, without modders RF2 wouldn't have any series (only monotype races), most leagues race with mods (I suppose they have good reasons to do so, you are free to disagree).

So surely wrongly again, I suppose, RF2 brilliant situation regarding sales would be worse without third party content.

If you aren't grateful for persons that devote an inordinate amount of their free time, out of their passion for motor sports, to develop content, they share freely with you, it's your right. I am sure your attitude will "get you anywhere for good reason" as you say.

Cheers.
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What are you even on about,how are you linking anything you just said to my post,I never said I wasn't greatfull for modded work.

Sometime people don't arf act like petulant children and create their own reality when people disagree with ones attitude

Oh your right,I'll just go and choose from the 200 odd leagues all using every single piece of 200odd contents .

lets be real,out of all those mods,only a handful are any good,that's fact not fiction or hate.
 
Guimengo said:
Have you spent half as much time in the game as you have in these forums, raging at people who have been playing this for 5 years (not 3 months)? And I believe Marek did the Radical, Lgel.
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I ain't raging,just pointing out that when ever you three do post,it's negative or entitled drivel,going by you're posts you have nothing good to say about it,so I have to ask,do you actually still play the game or just troll the forums with negative posts.
I get it you have been here long and hold no hope for this product,so why stay,there's plenty other games to play rather than knock this one,just leave it for dead if that's what you think
 
Lgel said:
Do you work for S397?
If so, you answer is appalling, not any attempt to help the modder.
RF2 is where it is for good reasons.
Cheers.
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Then ask a clear question, and I will try to help.
I commented a request to release cars with open physics files. Files, that may contain sensitive data... As I said, there are other cars with unencrypted files, we have already provided, for study.
If you want an easy access to sensitive data of a particular car, ask manufacturers and racing teams for that.

Lack of a better documentation is something we will be looking but writing an in depth description about each of hundreds of parameters is not something you can do in one evening.
 
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