RFactor 2 Advanced Car Set up Guide

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by davidporeilly, Sep 13, 2015.

  1. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    yoy Could have beaten everyone if you dropped the ride heights to the lowest and ran no ffb

    Seriously though, I could hardly hear you talking so didn’t actually quite catch most of it, how much would something like this cost
     
  2. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    Yes the narration volume seems tricky. I dialed up a few things but have no control over engine volume.
    Ill try it in settings.

    Full cost details are available on the MX5 Super Cup web site but cars are between £9-16k. A race weekend approx £1,000.
    You can rent a car for an arrive and drive. That adds about £1,000.
     
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  3. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Would be interesting to hear your thoughts after your season, on how rf2s physics and tyre model feel compared to this, I know there isn’t a official car that match’s the one you have, but nevertheless, it’s always good to hear from people that have track time
     
  4. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    Just a quick note of appreciation to the many sim racers who have paid me the compliment of purchasing the guide/s.
    Seems to be ramping up and I'm very grateful.

    Testing and a little setup will begin in the real world MX5 for the new season shortly.
    I have no Motec but have invested in RaceChrono. So will at least be able to provide the overlays as per this video.
    Income from the guides will be paying my race fees for the next round and buying a transponder for the car.
    Thanks all.

     
  5. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I second to that.
     
  6. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    Yes good question, I will put my initial thoughts here after just one race weekend (quali and 3 races) and a test day.
    I test in the Spec Miata and used it to learn Donnington National circuit.
    In the Type 2? My lap time was similar to real life.
    It seemed very realistic, gear selection was correct. The rears were over heating and I had to soften the rear ARB, IRL on the race weekend my rears over heated and I had to soften rear dampers and stiffen front dampers (which worked).
    Lowering tyre pressures made me faster IRL.
    The FFB feel is probably better in RF2 than IRL (my car has power steering) but you see , smell as well as feel a front brake lockup. Rear lockups are more dramatic!
    I have onboard brake bias adjustment and RF2 experience taught me how to deal with a front lock up.
    It was interesting, on cold tyres I got a front lockup into the final chicane, after moving bias rearwards it needed to go forwards again once the tyres were warm and grip increased just like RF2.
    I plan to use RF2 to practice on all available tracks in the future.
    Things that RF2 can't teach me is to carry more corner entry speed, I was braking for too long and needed to lift off and carry more speed. I also need a gear lever , having used auto clutch and paddles for ever in the Sim. It might have to wait as I've just ordered a transponder )to save renting one) and a set of flame proof underwear (the rules don't require them but I spotted a used, but hopefully laundered set).
    I'll be testing at Llandow next week. I hope to have Race chrono up and running and will post a video of me practicing my braking and downshifting.
    This reminds me that that I had a visit to the kitty litter when during an attack into T1 I down shifted too early and locked up the rears. RF2 hasn't penalised me for that yet.

    Race starts were exciting but I felt very well prepared and got great starts, once having to lift to avoid shunting the car in front. The frame rate and vision helped!

    The guide:
    I get daily enquiries and yes it's still on sale.

    The original RF2 guide is €5.

    The expanded later version "Sim Racers Performance Guide" is €10.

    I contains all the earlier one but adds more info on strategy, tactics, driver development and quite a bit of video assets.

    To purchase either you send the payment to my PayPal Accnt which is

    davidporeilly@hotmail.com

    Ensure you note your email address and I will send it by return email.

    Cheers

    David
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  7. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I always thought that in simulations engine braking is usually underestimated. Or a lift off oversteer in general, which engine braking is only a part of, but I think it is a big part.

    Good real life and simulation experience comparison, we need lots more of that in simracing :) Also thats good way to promote your guide, I am getting interested.
     
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  8. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    I went out last Friday to Llandow Circuit in South Wales for a test session.
    Main jobs were to bolt in the ballast to the passenger floor and to mount and test Race Chrono, an android app that gives lap time delta and more data.
    I ended up running 3 stints with damper changes in between.
    The balance changes were very noticeable as were the impacts on the cars performance over a stint.
    The over-steery setup caused the rear tyres to go away.
    The under-steery set was slower for quite a while but fast eventually and the rears were bulletproof.
    A compromise set was best; fast by lap 3 and stayed fast till lap 18. Best optimal time, lowest delta and best handling on hot tyres.
    I had fun.
    I figured I would make a short video for the Sim Racers Performance Guide since I like rambling on about such things.

     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  9. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    BTW I figured out the audio mix as you will see from the latest video.
     
  10. tommy737

    tommy737 Registered

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    Hi David.
    is this guide still available to purchase?

    Best
    T
     
  11. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    Yes Tommy,
    Thanks for asking.
    You send the payment to my paypal which is
    davidporeilly@hotmail.com
    Note your email address and I will send it to you.
     
  12. tommy737

    tommy737 Registered

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    Done!
     
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  13. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    Race 1 edit including a little Setup and strategy chat!!
     
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  14. felan

    felan Registered

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    David, does your guide cover the fast damper settings as well and how to deal with a bumpy track in general (if only slow dampers available, ect.) a bit more detailed? This is one of the things I'm missing in most of the guides I've red over the years
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  15. Turbonetick

    Turbonetick Registered

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    Not enough in depth, very general, some links to video don’t work !
     
  16. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    It is fairly general on fast bump dampers.
    In this guide I suggest you check and optimise using motec.
    If the track is bumpy and or you are wanting to use kerbs then fast bump dampers need to be on the low side.
    However if they are too low it will come up as suspension velocity being too high (the graph will show wheels bouncing off the road).
    It's not easy to feel except for lap time delta as you hit the sweet spot.
    I don't offer a measurement as it differs from car to car. What I do is set a fixed rather than floating scale in the motec graph.
    By eye I can see if I can allow more fast bump movement (more grip) or less.
    But it's more intuition than by formula.
    I will always try less then more too find a sweet spot.
    On one team setup in a GT3 car my teammates handed me a set and it was lovely. Fast dampers were all I played with and it was around half a second at Suzuka and pole!
     
  17. felan

    felan Registered

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    Thx for being honest David! And thx for your hint regarding the fast bump settings on a bumpy track. Setting up a car @ Sebring is a pain in the §§s ;-)
    Edit: idk if you would like to expand your guide a bit regarding simple how to deal with curbs.
    But anyways here are my 'simple' rules how to deal with curbs
    --------
    Übersteuern Curb Auffahrt→ vorne weniger oder hinten mehr Fast Bump
    Übersteuern Runterfahrt vom Curb → vorne mehr oder hinten weniger Fast Rebound
    Untersteuern Curb Auffahrt → vorne mehr oder hinten weniger Fast Bump
    Untersteuern Runterfahrt vom Curb → vorne weniger oder hinten mehr Fast Rebound
    ------
    If you want I can translate the stuff in english for better understanding. Those simple guidelines are cross-checked by an active Formula-race car-driver
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  18. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    @felan
    Thanks, I put it in translate
    "Oversteer Curb Driveway - Front Less or Rear More Fast Bump
    Oversteer down from the curb - in front more or at the back less fast rebound
    Understeer Curb Driveway - Front More or Rear Less Fast Bump
    Understeering down-drive from the curb - at the front less or at the back more Fast Rebound"

    Where did you establish these principles?
    My understanding (so far) of the problem is that we want the wheel to move as necessary to absorb the kerb and yet maintain maximum possible contact. So the first part of the first recommendation makes sense EG if it oversteers (assuming the kerb has caused the front wheel to "catch" and rotate the front causing the oversteer) going up the kerb then you want more suspension compliance at the front so you reduce front slow(edit Fast) bump. I do however query the corresponding advice of doing the opposite to the rear. Less rear compliance would intuitively cause the rear to "skip" more on the kerb causing oversteer.
    I know that with slow bump settings you can impact grip at the other end as a secondary measure by doing the opposite (eg: stiffen front slow bump to send grip to the rear). But with slow damper settings you are impacting slower, whole of chassis movements. I don't know how much this hold true with fast dampers. So far I have never tried it. Fast dampers settings impact is over such a short time span that maybe its done and forgotten by the time the rear suspension gets any message?
    So in short I cant say.
    My testing has been confined to using fast dampers to a) keep that corner from unsettling the whole chassis and b) maximise contact/grip. I haven't tested to see any if inverse correlation on oversteer/understeer front to rear with fast dampers in the way it does with slow dampers.
    Next time I'm in RF2 I will!

    One thing I have used to good effect when its bumpy is to set a lower fast bump but retail a little higher rebound setting on a particular corner of the car. In this way the wheel can absorb the shock but the rebound is controlled so it doesn't get to bounce as much.

    And yes Sebring is so bumpy! Where are those people who insisted on laser scanning! The Norma LMP3 was so tricky there. I spent ages on fast dampers and never really got it right.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
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  19. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    Some of the video links are to external videos that I can't control.
    The key videos that were made for the guide are still up.
    Sorry you find the fast bump dampers section to general.
    Did you purchase the guide by the way?
     
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  20. mogwai

    mogwai Registered

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    Hope it's okay to jump in here. I'm late to this thread but David is spot on here.

    They way I look at fast damping is certainly through MOTEC and a damper velocity histogram. I tend to think of fast bump/rbd > 150 mm/s as a rule of thumb. I do NOT know that that correlates to real world 4-way shocks much less the ones we are specifically modelling in rF2, but if you're interested in what the high speed or fast damping there are a couple articles on the web for real world racing. Here's one link I found in just a moment of searching; https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/onlineracingaustralasia/motec-tuning-springs-dampers-t145.html

    But just like David, feeling it on the track is probably best. So, let's assume the car is NOT bottoming, the best way I tend to describe the effect of fast damping is through these two concepts.
    1. if you have front HS bmp/rbd too stiff, the car will understeer over the rough spots or curbs. This is not a weight transfer issue, it is a compliance issue.
    2. If you have Rear HS bmp/rbd too stiff, the car will oversteer over curbs or rough spots. When the rear fast bmp/rbd are too stuff, the car is not compliant enough and it behaves as if it the rear is bottoming out.
    Many rough tracks can show you exactly how it will affect car handling. The esses and turn 5 at Road Atlanta. Compliance at exit is critical and too stiff front or rear high speed settings will cause issues. Sunset corner at Sebring. Too high HS bmp/rbd and the car will ride over the curbs and push worse than it normally wants to already. Eau Rouge at Spa, too stiff front HS Bmp/Rbd as you ride over the right curb heading up the hill will cause the car to push over the curb on the exit near the top of the hill.

    Hope this helps and doesn't confuse.
     
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