rF2: What are you anticipating from it?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Petros Mak, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. luisdeluis

    luisdeluis Registered

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    - Que desde el dedicated server (si sigue existiendo) podamos administrar mejor las carreras mediante scripts o similares. Pero más allá de los comandos actuales y con permisos de administrador, cosa que ahora no se puede.

    - Que nos ayuden al máximo para acabar con la lacra de los tramposos o cheaters. Hay gente (ya muy conocida) que nos dedicamos a esto y tenemos que hacer maravillas para lograrlo cuando con ayuda y un sistema más abierto sobretodo de comunicación, se haría con un 100% de seguridad.

    Los administradores y desarrolladores invertimos mucho tiempo de diversión y ocio para que los demás disfruten y tengan seguridad. Por lo tanto estamos involucrados al máximo y por ello deberíamos tener más acceso y más comunicación para ayudarnos a que la labor sea un éxito sin que nos cueste el 80% de nuestro tiempo disponible.
     
  2. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    +1
     
  3. Jux

    Jux Registered

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    +1 for being dumbass
     
  4. Jux

    Jux Registered

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    One more thing. When shifting gears, the clutch pedal should be used properly.
     
  5. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    Like this?..... :D

     
  6. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Unless your shifter has a 'force feedback' of sorts that stops you actually changing gears unless you use the clutch properly, it'll never be right. I agree it would be good if you could set it to be more realistic, but everything's a compromise. (as for forcing players... let's not open that can of worms)
     
  7. DeDios

    DeDios Registered

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    ok but (just my opinion)..take for example a F1 historical car who should be used with H-shifter. If you race using paddles, well..you're taking an (irrealistic) advantage, am i right? :)
     
  8. Dave Millard

    Dave Millard Registered

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    I like to open cans...especially ones full of worms. This race "sim" thing we all do here is just that, a simulation. I try to make it as realistic as possible, some people like arcade style things,,, that's all fine n dandy. I love what iRacing did to their transmission model, it has its drawbacks yes... but is a step in the right direction. Hopefully rF2 will go in the same direction.
     
  9. theother5

    theother5 Registered

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    Hey Luisdeluis,

    Welcome. I took the liberty to Google translate your post so I could understand roughly what you said. I tend to agree with you in general.

    You can do the same .. right!

    Hola Luisdeluis,

    Bienvenido, por cierto. Me tomé la libertad de tratar de Google Translate su mensaje. Estoy de acuerdo con lo que usted dice, en general, también.

    Usted puede hacer lo mismo también. gracias
     
  10. theother5

    theother5 Registered

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    !!!
     
  11. maatriks

    maatriks Registered

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    As it seems my post has had some responses, I feel I should respond to them, so here I go.

    I would not say, that I do not care about damage, but I do not prioritize it as high as physics, yes. I do, however, prioritise it much higher than "realistic accident response times".

    If I would have to drive back to pits after every qualifying lap... I would do it, but I would prefer no to. For me the simulation is driving on the edge, touching the boundaries of physics (which is why physics is very important to me). This is where damage comes into play: if I damage my car, it's handling changes, so damage and physics are greatly related when it comes to car handling, which should be priority number 1 in any serious sim.

    About serious leagues: In the highest leagues of rFactor this is not watched (if someone drives to pits after Q-lap etc) as far as I know, you can of course prove me wrong.

    Again, if you want to "play" like in real life, it is always an option, noone will stop you from doing that, it's just about priorities and what should be considered more important to develop first.
     
  12. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I hope no one's taking 'serious league' as somehow putting down those that don't care for certain real life scenarios... there may well be extremely 'serious' racing in any game, even arcade ones. In a sense this 'serious' in regards to damage repair, pit recovery, etc, could nearly be a substitute for 'tedious' :)

    In the case of escaping to the pits, even if you decide to make it illegal you can't rule out someone accidentally doing it out of habit; which then raises all sorts of questions. Of course if you give some leeway for 'mistakes' you open up the possibility of some people taking advantage of it at key moments. A simple server setting that disables escaping to the pits (or gives you a couple of chances to confirm, knowing you're not supposed to do it and you'll be locked in the pits for the rest of the session) is much easier (for players/admin, and surely not all that difficult to code) and doesn't affect anyone who decides they don't want it.

    Think of it this way: you're showing rF/2 to someone who's never seen a racing sim before, you're there doing quali, you set your time, and you pull off the track, escape back to the pits, tweak your set, and head back out... obviously they're going to say, "hmm... I thought this was supposed to be realistic... in real life they have to manage their time so they can get back to the pits and have another go... this is a bit silly."

    The same thing works with all sorts of scenarios. Of course a lot of leagues care more about the actual racing and don't want it... and that's fine. But when you're playing a simulator, it would be nice to actually be able to simulate a lot of real life aspects... which is what the whole thing's about anyway. But like the clutch mentioned earlier, you can't make it mandatory.
     
  13. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Registered

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    A tangent point from Lazza's post, how do leagues get around limiting the number of laps people can run? Obviously in real life you can't pound around the circuit for 20 hours perfecting your setup before race day. Extreme example, Sebastian Vettel completed less than 12 dry timed laps before the Turkish Grand Prix race (still grabbed pole and won of course!). I've always wanted to simulate the limited running real drivers get. Not sure if it's a skill leveler or if it creates bigger gaps.

    I know there's the option of putting 10 tracks on the server and randomly selecting one on official race night, but is that the best solution? Of course the drivers can test all the circuits during the week but it could potentially be a waste of time if the circuits they run aren't chosen for that night's race.
     
  14. Guineapiggy

    Guineapiggy Registered

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    Driver honesty seems to be the only way to regulate that. Even if you do try to restrict the time people get to know a track there are plenty of sources for car setups around. The only thing I could think of is making very distinct tracks drivers have never seen before, though in this instance rF2 offers an interesting opportunity with variable weather. Got a good dry setup? Oh, too bad, it appears to be monsoon conditions. An evolving circuit in terms of rubber, dirt, weather and temperature at least forces a certain amount of adaptation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2011
  15. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Registered

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    Yep, good points about the live track reducing the familiarity one could gain with infinite testing. I guess that's why the live track and weather appeals to me most!
     
  16. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Technically I can think of only one way to do it... have a league plugin that detects when you're practicing on the league server and fixes a lot of your car parameters from absolute nonsense (which is what you download) to the proper figures. Therefore any practice done on another server, offline, or without the plugin, will be completely useless. Downsides: you can't use an available mod (or something too close to one, or practice is still worthwhile)... and obviously the method is fairly questionable. For both these reasons I never considered actually doing it.

    Also, in emulating a modern series (especially F1) track time is only one aspect - lots of drivers do laps in simulators, teams work out things like gear ratios and wings based on the track layout, and I'm sure lots of other things because the people involved are very clever and will want to be as prepared as possible before arriving at the track. This means a lot of the practice online drivers actually do, in track familiarisation, basic setup work, etc, isn't extra work the real teams/drivers don't do - ironically you're using the 'real' simulated track for the same work a real team uses a simulator for ;)

    It's a shame you can't regulate it where appropriate, so in the end you're just favouring the guys with the will and ability to get around it...

    Edit: I should add I'm hoping the extra variability means we'll end up leaving some more in reserve when driving, like in real life (though obviously real drivers have to worry about variability AND not killing themselves if they overdo it). Those driving constantly on the edge may find themselves falling over it more often as track temps and track wetness change lap by lap.
     
  17. Crash

    Crash Registered

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    ah yes .. BUT as Lazza alluded to, Vettel probably did a lot of hours in redbulls rfactor pro based simulator beforehand lol :p

    So to be more realistic... should rfactor2 have a lower grade simulator within a simulator? IE league guys can do as many laps as they want in a simulator within the sim, but have limited laps in the main sim???

    personally I think why bother? I know in our league some guys take longer to get up to speed than others, if they have they time to do more laps and therefore get more competitive, then good for them :) it just makes the racing better in general, If we restricted laps it would just give an advantage to the guys that get up to speed quicker, and disadvantage the guys that take longer to get up to speed, potentially hurting the competitive racing, and likely hurting the enjoyment of those that have the time to practice.

    Even things like forcing H-shifters could get unfair when some guys can afford better quality gear, and others have to make do with cheaper stuff that maybe isnt as easy or smooth to use etc. Screen size can technically give you an advantage, likewise top notch wheels with better FFB feeling could give an advantage... where does it end lol? do we all have to use the same brand wheels, screen etc, even run the same grpahics cards and CPU's to ensure the lag between drivers is the same hehe?

    Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the idea so much, I just think there will always be advantages and disadvantages when guys have different equipment and different amount of spare time to practice and so on, restricting things probably just changes who gets the advantage..


    Then there's other aspects, like John posted above what about guys with handicaps? What about guys that can't afford a current generation wheel, perhaps they have an older wheel with no clutch or H-Shifter?


    I'm hoping rfactor2 continues to be enjoyable, accessable and usable by the majority (including guys that have wheels with no clutch/h-shifter etc) but improves things like Safety cars and Driver Swapping, adds things like the ability to rejoin after a D/C, generally things that will improve league racing and enjoyment. ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2011
  18. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Registered

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    lol, although this is true now, it's only of recent years this practice of simulation has appeared. Go back a decade and more, and drivers literally could roll up on race day with sweet eff all running time. Especially the lesser teams where in-season testing was almost nil because of the costs involved.

    A track like Monaco for instance, no one gets to practice that which is one of the main reasons why it's such a huge challenge.


    Ultimately the race should determine the fastest driver. If driver A takes 4 hours to get up to speed while driver B takes 3 laps, they both set the fastest time, who is the faster driver? Driver B. If driver A practices another 4 hours then he can easily beat driver B. So ultimately, the fastest driver is determined by the person who has the most time to practice, not who is the faster driver. Which is kinda against the point of racing, to determine the faster driver. Of course there's enjoyment etc, which I'm not questioning, but I think it's more unfair that a person who has infinite time to practice compared to someone who has one hour really makes the field not level at all.

    Equipment factors sure, similar problem except that is realistic. Red Bull Racing has better equipment than Virgin for instance. But both are restricted to similar running time.

    Ultimately it should be a test of who can do the best job with the equipment they have. That's why they banned testing in F1, because Ferrari could pound around at Fiorano and Mugello every day of the year while the lowly Life team could only test during pre-qualifying!


    Anyway I didn't want to tangent off the topic too much, but was just wondering what 'solutions' leagues had for this scenario. I think it's a valid scenario to address and will certainly build up the tension and pressure.

    Example, say 1 hour practice then go into qualifying knowing everyone starts at the same point in time. I think it would really add to the realism. You know you've got one hour to sort out your setup, test tyre degradation, cooling of engine/brakes, do a quali sim, do a few long runs, try the different compounds etc. And knowing you roll into practice at no advantage or disadvantage makes it all the more sweeter when you do a good job.
     
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  19. Crash

    Crash Registered

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    Dunno that I overly agree with you're asseesment about what makes a fast driver, and what the point of racing is all about - for me racing is competition and it's the competition (racing) in itself that is enjoyable. The person who can overcome the odds, and can compete the best on the day wins. Sure F1 has limits on testing but that's as much about cutting ridiculous F1 costs than anything else, doesnt mean all racing has that. I'm not sure it's relevant to sim-racing where there's no cost associated to practice etc.

    Wouldn't it get kinda boring though? what you're suggesting would pinpoint the guys in a league that are fast "out of the box", they would win, and all the rest would struggle.. Somewhat realistic I suppose when you look at something like F1 this year where you have Vettel winning and everyone else struggling behind.. but doesnt really make great league racing though does it? probably wouldn't be very enjoyable unless you're the guy thats fast "out of the box"... I suspect you might be a guy that is? :p You're limiting the opportunity for others to improve (noted it's limiting but not taking it away completely)

    I've raced Karts which is often quoted as the purest form of racing, Both Senna and Schumacher point at Karting as the some of the best racing yoiu can get, and guess what, there's no limit to how much practice you can do in Karting.. and yes the guys that spend more weekends at the track practicing generally do better.

    But I do get what you're saying though, and I agree having a choice of restricting practice may work well for some leagues. especially F1 leagues that want to replicate F1 as closely as possible. Personally I wouldn't race in a league that restricted practice like that though :) (yes I'm a guy that's not fast "out of the box" lol)

    P.S. sorry just re-read that and it was a ramble lol, I actually can see your point and agree with an option being available to restrict practice for leagues that want to use it, but I wouldn't race in any league that did use the option lol :)
     
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  20. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Registered

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    Narp definitely not a guy who is quick out of the box lol. I need a fair bit of practice to get up to speed. Once I get there I'm ok. I guess the other point is that time restrictions means that everyone most likely won't have the perfect setup. They'd be compromises and that I think would create more mistakes in races. I think the aliens will always be aliens, but the rest of the field might be closer together. Be interesting to try one day!

    But yeh I can see the opposing view and I agree that I don't think it would be popular and only a certain few would take to it.

    Having said all the above though, the weather conditions and live track will practically create this 'limited time' situation. The track will vary lap to lap (if it was realistic) so perfecting setup would then become very very difficult because if simulated well, no setup would be fantastic in all different weather situations!
     

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