RF2 over LAN?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by pitkin, Nov 3, 2011.

  1. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

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    Tim, with all regards but my post was pointed directly to Gjon, not to you. And I'm looking forward to see what Gjon can say about what I said, not you. Thank you.
     
  2. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Gjon already answered your question before you asked it. Read his posts. HE took LAN out and it only went back in when the matchmaker was covering it. He says that in HIS posts. If you want to ignore what both of us said, that's fine. You can await a reply...
     
  3. coops

    coops Banned

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    ?

    hey gjon you have every right to protect your investment im with you 100% on it . but could you pls answer 1 ? will there be something in place to stop modders putting prices on there mods? as i think and others are worried modders might try and go dwn this path.
     
  4. Jaageri

    Jaageri Registered

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    You know you can have an internet connection with a mobile phone these days (Bogus - data transfer cost a fortune in some places), so would it be enough when you setup a LAN-party that only ONE connection to the Matchmaker is required or does it need to be in constant connection with it, like Bugisoft had with SH5 and Assassin's Creed series?
     
  5. coops

    coops Banned

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    TIM IS THE MAN GJON GAVE THE MEDIA RIGHTS TOO, SO HE CAN CONTINUE TO WORK ON RFACTOR2
    show some respect here to tim as gjon dosnt have the time to answer all ?s why do you think he employed tim and tim only gives us what he can when he can. keep up the gd work tim waiting for your next post.
     
  6. theother5

    theother5 Registered

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    How do you make that out? No one punishing anyone .... there is a business reality behind this model. It is something for something ..... a good deal for the customer where there is a choice whether to continue ... the customer is not even locked in.

    As I read it, the cost of the product is shy of $50! (or whatever in Euro) The online account is shy of $13.
    There in no bundle. The early adopters will buy a beta product as full retail and ISI feel it appropriate to add in the 12 or 18 months access for this group. Very cool!

    This thing may well outrun rF1 .........

    A little arrogant that comment ... not everyone is IT savvy ... Perhaps you do not go online ... but ever heard of mismatches_

    I see your point here and I could agree with you more if this was a monthly sub model ... but it is not. Had some bad experiences myself with subs systems so I am very sensitive.

    This is a 12 month account access ...lump sum and reasonable. Think of it a service overhead on your product.

    If you prefer to DIY, then DIY .... no loss.

    On the PC system front, you can get away without the state of the art big gaming rigs .... so hopefully you can get yourself up and running sooner than later.
     
  7. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    I can look after myself. It's fine. I'll only respond to him when he directly responds to me. :)
     
  8. maatriks

    maatriks Registered

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    I understand that matchmaker is required to initialize connection with server, but is it needed to hold connection with server?

    Scenario: League has raced for 2 hours, 2 laps to go, matchmaker server goes offline for some unknown reason, will the race continue to the end?

    Thank you.
     
  9. Petros Mak

    Petros Mak Registered

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    There is one major thing stopping that already...series owners and license owners. No mod group would be stupid enough to sell a mod that has real names of real vehicles and drivers. That would be a copyright infringement as the mod group has no rights (unless they acquire licenses from the series/manufacturers to use and sell their mod with that content. In regards to hybrid work and fantasy mods, that is a different story, but I don't see why ISI should stop mod groups from selling hybrid/fantasy or even licensed content mods. A mod group has to work just as hard to create the content so why are they not entitled to make something from it? You would buy an expansion pack that is sold by ISI but you wouldn't buy a mod from a mod group that may be of better quality even?

    Don't get me wrong here, I'm not one to support mod groups selling mods, but I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to if they have the rights from the content rights owners to do so. ISI doesn't need to bother with this.

    As for LAN gaming. Needing a connection to an online service for LAN games or even for running leagues is completely stupid. Just as a question mentioned above, what happens if the online server for matchmaker is down? Sure this won't happen all the time or often but it can happen. What if it spontaneously goes down while leagues are racing? This will have a major impact on racing leagues and if it causes more problems then its worth, people will stray away to other games or possibly even back to rF1.

    Requiring online to play in online public race rooms is logical, but to deny private servers via IP and LAN to run the game without having a connection to matchmaker is wrong in my oppinion.

    I agree with ISI's point about this helping monitor cheats and wreckers for online gaming, but this has no bearing on LAN and Private servers via IP. It is the responsibility of racing league management and private server owner to ensure their members are not wreckers, its NOT ISI's responsibility so I don't know why they are making LAN and IP connection be covered by matchmaker. It completely removes the point of it being LAN and Private Server.

    So now if I want to run multiple comps on LAN, I not only need to have multiple accounts running multiple subscriptions, I'll also need to share the bandwidth between multiple computers. Gjon, mate, for LAN, this isn't the way to go. I can completely understand and agree with you about the rest of the online abilities, but LAN and IP is something that is highly needed and I don't see why or how having them revolve around Matchmaker is benefiting the community. It doesn't benefit the community at all, it hinders it.

    As stated above. Racing Leagues and private servers have their own responsibility to manage the members in their rooms, to set passwords. Please re-think this matchmaker situation for IP and LAN as its a real let down in my view.

    And bear in mind. I'm not one who cares about the subscription fee or the price, I'll still have a subscription and renew it. Its not about that, I run 8 rFactor servers at the moment and bearing the thought that I'd have to go through this matchmaker crap for running my own private servers is just completely off putting.
     
  10. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    The connection is needed to startup, then for the connection of the clients. It would also be needed for the re-connection of the clients if someone tripped over a cable or something. Then we intend to send race stats when the race finishes. We're sure you'll find out ways to get around things and when you can unplug, but what ISI wants is for there to be an (unused for the racing) internet connection even during LAN races, and that's what we're developing towards. As was stated earlier, LAN almost didn't make it at all as it didn't fit in with the plan.

    I know this won't work for everyone, just saying what I'd do: Lots of phones these days allow you to hook them up as modems and use their connection. It sometimes needs a bit of trickery but if I were organizing an event that's probably what I'd use, then simply share the connection on the network.
     
  11. mianiak

    mianiak Registered

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    Hey that's a good idea! You should put it in the wishlist thread. If there was an option for modders to sell their mods, it would encourage more professional modders to get involved, plus it would open the door to licensed content. I'd happily pay a modder for their months if not years of hard work. :)
     
  12. Highharti

    Highharti Registered

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    No it isn't.

    I said that before, and I say it again:
    I've no problem to pay for updates/new content, or even for this mod/content management thing. In all these cases, I get something back for my money, which is, how businesses work.

    I do have a problem to pay someone to get the permission to connect to a server that is owned and paid by someone else, maybe even by myself. I can't see any moral right that would allow ISI to prohibit someone (who has bought rF2 legaly) to connect to my server. I pay the bills for it and if anyone, it's me who has the moral right to charge people to join it.

    I'm not a penny-pinching guy, but I want to be treated in fairness. By running a server, I put a lot of effort and money into rF2 and I'm supporting ISI by doing that. And I'm sorry, I don't want ISI to make extra-money out these efforts. Make money with your own efforts, it's fine. But don't try to charge people for using my services. That's not how businesses work. That's just not fair!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2011
  13. lordpantsington

    lordpantsington Registered

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    $43, is about the going MSRP for a game, I don't know of any game that is completely offline.

    If it is $13 a year to cover costs, then it matters not if that $13 is added to the base or as a separate fee. Because online is included, it is in the price somewhere.


    So what changes when you separate them?

    You now give the consumer the option of when the year long timer starts ticking. When they are ready they can penny up and go online.

    It would be a better system if incremented to smaller units (number of connects, minutes connected, refreshes, updates), and itemized to the user. If I race once a month online, I don't want to be paying for some dude that is racing 3 times per hour. If I never go online, why am I paying for some junk service I never use? If I won't be able to race with multiple cars until I get a new system, and ETA on that is +1 year, that year of online service is worthless.

    The subscription timing thing is what I hate most about iRacing. You have a certain time period to race before your time is up. It seems like iRacing, (and sadly now ISI) doesn't care if the product actually gets used, just wants their money, and then more, on a yearly basis. ;P
     
  14. Revvin

    Revvin Registered

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    Thousands of people using pirated copies of rF2 isn't fair either, ISI have every right to put systems in place to reduce that. ISI are not charging people to use your service they are charging people to use their game that will run through their service that will provide some degree of piracy protection for them and stat collecting and numerous other services. Perhaps ISI should charge people who charge to use the server software they created that they give away freely? doesn't seem fair you charge for their server software? fair?
     
  15. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Straight off the top of my head would be the GTA series and Egosoft's X Series, both of which I play and even have mentioned in my signature. Both completely offline, and both (were on release) more expensive. They're my favorite non-racing games by a loooong way.

    As for the rest of your post, I don't even think I can respond... It's like you aren't even talking about rFactor 2... Nothing you're mentioning is applicable at all...
     
  16. Flaux

    Flaux Registered

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    If I can join packed open servers without mismatches in rF2... well then rFactor's biggest prob is solved and I will pay those 25 cents a week for having the fun of my (sim-)life. (With all the content iRacing doesn't provide.)

    So, I really don't see a point to discuss here. :confused:
     
  17. Petros Mak

    Petros Mak Registered

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    I think you miss the point entirely. It has nothing to do with pirating rF2. No one is disputing matchmaker for online public rooms and updating, because updating is also possible without matchmaker, its just easier with matchmaker. The dispute is that to run a LAN or private server via IP, you have to pay for that too. So wait a second, we pay 50 bucks for the game, 100+ bucks a month on a server, and then have to continue paying 13 bucks a year just to be able to connect to our own server or our own computers via LAN??? You serious??? Very few leagues I know charge their members to race in their league, the majority of leagues online lose more money then they make. All this is about is ISI trying to tap into the thousands of players who race in racing leagues and to get them paying a subscription fee so they can make in excess of tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars more per year so people can access their own computers and servers they're already paying a lot of money for.

    Everyone keeps missing the point, I don't get it. Its got NOTHING to do about the money. Its all about forcing players to have a subscription to run their own LAN or Private Servers. So we're not only paying for our own private servers, we have to pay to be able to run the game on them too.

    I don't know what they were smoking when they came up with this idea but I'd surely love to have some of that stuff. As for the matchmaker for online public rooms, updates, news, version checking. That part of the scenario is a brilliant idea and one I will be subscribing to. Now you might say, if your gonna be subscribing anyway, why the fuss?

    The fuss is because ISI has released news on something that they're not wanting to give full info for until possibly next year, so why even say anything about it now??? Its just causing confusion and arguments on the forums. So if I want to run 8 servers as I do with rF1, will I need to have and pay for 8 subscription? I doubt that all 8 servers can login and run with the same matchmaker account, so what do we do there?
     
  18. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Actually, that is exactly how business works. Have you been paying more for petroleum products lately and wondered why? Had to pay more for a taxi? Had to pay a fuel surcharge on your baggage?

    Just to pluck an example (which was very easy think of, because there's millions of them in business), you would be the Airline and we would be the fuel supplier. If oil gets more expensive, we're going to work out a way to do business and keep selling fuel. We might even sign you up to an exclusive contract as your fuel supplier so you can't go anywhere else, hey, that's business. It's then up to you to work out a way to do business. It's then up to the customer to work out if they want to do business with you. The difference for you, is that we're charging everybody the same for their fuel and the free market isn't going to make you raise your prices and lower them again on it's whims.

    If you are running a server, you're in exactly the same situation as everyone who is running a server. That's a hell of a lot more fair than the airline industry and countless other industries affected by the global market, but it's still business.

    Tell me... How do you connect to the internet? You pay your ISP, right? Your ISP does NOT own every single hop that your connection travels on. Shouldn't you be paying those other ISPs for their servers, too? You are, after all, connecting via your ISP to their servers...

    I understand being upset over money, I do. But unfair? Not business? :) Business is often unfair, I think ISI are remarkably supportive and perhaps the actual product, it's release, it's online service, will show this...
     
  19. feels3

    feels3 Member

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    You are paying 100$ month for server and it's hard to you to pay aditional 13$ per year??

    It's only 1 dolar per month...
     
  20. Petros Mak

    Petros Mak Registered

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    OMG. I can't believe people can be so stupid. Yet again. ITS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY!!! Telling people that they have to pay more to use something they have already paid for on their own computers or servers is the problem here. No one disputes the online matchmaker for public rooms and public gaming reasons, but to have to pay extra to be able to run two computers at home and play with my son or with a friend??? or to have to pay to run it on my server hence promoting the game further??? The only reason rFactor lasted so long aside from the mods is due to all the racing leagues that were able to run it without a fee which brought more and more people to the game and to competing online with it.

    I will still have and own a subscription, but think about it, if I run 8 or even 10 servers as I was planning to with rF2, its not 13 dollars a year, its 130 dollars a year. Now that is not much either but its yet another expense in something that I won't get with other games. Why should I bother? I just wait for GTR 3, mod that, run that and there we go, but why should I have to do that? ISI does NOT need to resort to these tactics for LAN and IP connections.
     

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