RF2 over LAN?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by pitkin, Nov 3, 2011.

  1. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    hehe I fell exactly the same as you! paid bugger all for rF1 but STILL to this day getting more fun out of it than anything I've possibly every owned on a PC, maybe Unreal being the exception with the amount of hours spent designing FPS levels!
     
  2. NOxy

    NOxy Registered

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    It's just feedback. Don't shoot the messenger.

    For us rF2 is a no-sale. The short rational; with the current limited bandwidth of most players here an annual subscription to (maybe*) access a LAN server is not worth the money.

    maybe* - I'm not sure if Tim said Yes or No to the 56K question above. But, it is a non-issue for us now.
     
  3. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    MM is only used for setup. So 56K would work just fine. Once the handshaking is done, all communications go through the server on your LAN. I have also seen people comment on the bandwidth requirement for rF2 being to high for most people. Keep in mind that the requirements posted were for the server's outgoing connection which will be way higher then what a client's down and upstream need to be. Just think about it. The server has to send a copy of the same information to each person that is on the server. But a client only sends his own position to the server. So the upstream requirements for a client will be very low and don't increase as more people join. The client's downstream will increase as people join the server but will still be much lower then the server's upstream requirements.

    People running servers are really the only people that will be impacted by the new bandwidth requirements. Clients should be impacted that much though.
     
  4. Slothman

    Slothman Registered

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    Noxy, same position with 90% of my play being done at LAN's due to poor internet connections.

    But, due to some reading, I will confirm that all you need is a 56K connection shared. This is to "enable the multiplayer" on the client end.

    The server does not need to be connected to the net. The server does not need to "own a license" as it runs from the download. Once the client has the MM component loaded it does not NEED that connection again unless they quit out and load once more.

    Honestly it really isnt an issue :)

    It is simple to set up and easy to use. ANY connection should be sufficient to handle the date being transferred.

    So LAN play is MORE than doable.

    Locally where I am I have already researched for a 3G Router for a USB 3G Stick as that will be our easiest method, doesnt matter where we go than. $20 on it, use it as needed...should last a while :)

    To be fair, the amount of enjoyment I get out of the LAN's it is EASILY justifiable.

    $50 purchase, $13 per year, $100 per year for internet (over guessing here)...at LEAST 10 hours play each LAN and we od quite a few...7 Big ones around 7 smaller ones...lets say...100 hours.

    $1.63 per hour for JUST my LAN use...that doesnt include single player practice, online if I get a chance etc.

    Good luck doing ANYTHING for $1.63 per hour..hell I think its less than that actually.

    So dont give up on only having 56K....I reckon it will still work...and if you want to wait until I have tested it before you buy...I would be more than willing to do that just to see other LAN people playing.

    BTW...PM about your LAN...I would like to start some kind of rFactor LAN community :)
     
  5. the_last_name_left

    the_last_name_left Registered

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    That's very good of you. Nice one.
     
  6. apostlegato

    apostlegato Registered

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    I do believe the online mathmaker is mostly about piracy however, I dont think the $12.99 is. (Which I agree isnt much per year). I know a lot of games charge to play, Sims and WoW have been doing it for quite a while. With BF3 you have to use a web browser to load the game, online or offline but they have no subscription fees. So I guess what Im saying is I am ok with the online matchmaker thing as long as we can host private races online. But I am NOT into the $12.99 a year charge. Maybe you need to charge it maybe you dont. But I only race 1 night a week in a scheduled race league that I host from my server. So online matchmaking isnt needed for me or most of our league for that matter. I lost interest in open server racing way back when I found my first league and that was 2003. Since then I have been running scheduled, private online races.
     
  7. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Personally I'm hoping the more 'controlled' public arena (assuming drivers/wreckers/cheats are identifiable in some way, even if it's just a central server reporting that a particular driver has been banned previously) will lead to more public racing - so we don't all need to be locked away in leagues all the time. Of course they have their place, but hopefully those interested in public races can do that too, either exclusively or between their league meets.

    Just think of it as an $83 game you'll play for 4 years (still more than... well... almost every other game you might buy), but you're getting it on a payment plan to make it easier - $44 up front, $13 a year for the 3 remaining years ;)
     
  8. SeKa

    SeKa Registered

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    Why in hell should I think it is a $83 game? Why should I think i´ll play for 4 years? Why should I need a payment plan? And the most unpleasent thing that people feel is, why ISI forced me to "hidden earnings", like EA or other stock companies?

    Look, it is the feeling, not the money, what people makes crazy. rF1 is coming out with a brutally honest offer. The community was the second needed ingredient, what makes rF1 in that manner great for years. For rF2 ISI have to be proofed, how things are going during the first year. Your pipe dream makes sense, if enough content realized, if antipiracy and cheating are a little bit curbed, and if rF2 noteworthy forwarded.

    I run a league, I love rFactor and I am looking anxiously to the future. IF anything of the above not going plainly in good manner, I think the rF community is nearly dead after 12 Months of release...

    We have just to wait and to check out! But the problem with LAN and something like that is still fact. I´m curious about what ISI will publish for those people for example apostlegato.
     
  9. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Well it was intended as a bit of a thought exercise... but ok...

    The point with $83 is that people keep popping up saying it's not about the money, it's about the feeling of having to pay every year. Well, work out how many years you think you'll play it, work out how much you'll pay, and decide whether you think you'd be willing to pay it for rF2. In the end that's what it comes down to, because there's nothing 'hidden' about it - they're telling you exactly what you'll pay for it. If it was $150 lifetime use you'd decide it's either worth it or not - so just make the same decision.

    Since, as you point out, its worth is dependent on what it actually delivers, wait for the demo and gauge feedback from others before making a decision - why sit here complaining about what ISI's doing if you might eventually decide it's ok because rF2 lives up to your hopes?

    As for the community, it's easy to overstate it. Without the community contributing rFactor would be a decent quality sim with largely fictional cars and a mix of fictional and real tracks - there'd still be people playing it (as there are people playing GPL, GP4, GP3, GP2, F1GP(!), ...). With the community input there are mods that surpassed the original content graphically, some that surpassed the original mods' physics and audio, some that equaled it, a lot that fell short. You'd have a similar mix if it wasn't 'modder friendly' (as with other games, such as those I've listed above), though probably in fewer numbers. With a community but no rFactor, ... we'd have a lot of the same mods in other games, though again fewer in number.

    ISI owes the community nothing, needs to prove nothing, cannot possibly have any demands placed on what it should achieve with rF2. If rF2 doesn't do what you hoped, stick with rF1 or move to something else.

    Ask yourself this: if ISI turned around right now and said the rF1 matchmaker was going to have a fee now, and in doing so piracy would be significantly reduced - would you pay it? I know I would. Heck, I'd pay $13/year for each year I had the game if they wanted, because it's still a ridiculously small fee for something I get (and got) so much pleasure from, and despite the fact the game was previously $55 (or whatever you paid for it) for lifetime use.

    If you don't like the idea, that's fine - but don't sit here talking like ISI's doing something immoral in asking for a yearly fee for a new product. Look at the content it already has, listen to them talking about future content - I'd pay $44 +$13/yr for what they're making and the ability to race it online, let alone any community content that came along.
     
  10. SeKa

    SeKa Registered

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    It seems, the ISI lawyer Lazza going around again. ;)

    I wish it was all that easy as you attempt to declare. But what i wrote and mean is in summary near the same as your meaning, and for all I don´t talk about immoral ISI. Here you are going to lose the sense of my intension

    Fact one, we are talking here about rF2, and not about other games. If possible, you just can only compare with rF1! Fact two, wonderful examples of calculations can be done from everybody and from every point of view. This is also not the point I´m trying to discuss. Fact three is, that I´m talking more about the future of the community, future of the leagues, which is not compatible to unorganised drivers. And finally fact four, you are also sitting here over the whole forums and discussing therefor pro direction and with same arguments as always, becouse you like and accept the Idea.

    The discussion would become a little bit tragedy, if only one or two people discussing again and again about with same arguments. Once more, it is more than the money. You have to notice, that many people are not here to cry out their annoyance, they are discussing in leagues. People around the world have other opinions and wonts specific to their country. I try simply to involve ISI too, in this discussion and chain of thought. And i would like to read more arguments and peoples around the world about their minds, not just calculations from same mind ever. Doesn´t matter pro or contra. Is´nt this the wanting from all here?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2011
  11. jimbop

    jimbop Registered

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    seems like no ones worried about whacking in £10 or whatever to the ISI pension fund.

    this is like a step backwards when internet explorer cost money. until MS dished it out for free. no, this isnt about money from us so called 'whiners'.
    this is about paying for a dis-abled game every year. ill probably still heave up, like a do paying VAT on bogroll or other 'luxury' goods.
    why not charge £70+ for the game [it will be well worth it!] with secure log ons or whatever [before anyone can host LAN game]
     
  12. the_last_name_left

    the_last_name_left Registered

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    err.....no.


    I hated the idea, at first. But I've come around to it. $13 after yr 1? Big deal. Another $13 after yr2? Big deal. $1 a month.....for online matchmaker? No like, no pay. Simples. It's really not a big deal. I don't like phone home.....but la de dah. If this is what it takes (and it does, obviously) to keep ISI going and to get rF2....well.....there we go. There isn't a choice - other than pay $50 to Codemasters for rubbish. Up to you.

    So, you're online anyway. A few kbs of data and you're away. What's the big deal? What's the actual difference? Nowhere in your 4 "facts" did you make a substantive argument against it.

    Just accept it, and you'll realise there's no issue here. Why not accept it? It's how it is......you've no choice....other than to throw over ISI and rF2 and all it means....for the sake of $13 a year after the 1st year....when "it's not about the money". Hmmm.

    If you have a league, you race online, right? So.....you're already online.....and to race online you have to go through matchmaker. Which means after yr1 you will need pay $13 for the service. But....it isn't about the money, apparently. So what *is* it about then? You're already online to join the league! So what's the issue, if it isn't the money? Yes things have changed......so.....things have changed. Ho hum.


    Because it's $45 or whatever, not £70.

    rF2 has taken, what, some 3/5 years of development on top of previous iterations? IT isn't going to sell like modern warfare. Or even like the Codemasters' rubbish, probably - on which they spend 12 months for each iteration and charge $60 a go. And look at it? Seriously.......

    If you like what ISI do, and you really should if you have a head on your shoulders and any experience of game history, then it's a drop in the ocean and fabulously generous. You're paying for an open format......and a game from developers that do things properly. Compare The Sims? Or Codies F1? Or iRacing? Seriously......come on?

    People are full of virtuous rhetoric and intentions, and yet when it comes down to it......where do these things disappear to? If you don't like it and don't support it (your choice) then you contribute to filling the market with Codemasters' rubbish and such like. Your choice.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2011
  13. deak1944

    deak1944 Guest

    With Black Shark 1 you could, now with Black Shark 2 this:

    "Another question regarding this: Logically then (based on the above), LAN play is then simply NOT possible while offline, even with two different serials?
    Correct.

    As stated on the main website:

    Quote:
    AN INTERNET CONNECTION IS REQUIRED FOR MULTIPLAYER INCLUDING LAN PLAY"

    http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=37373&page=2
     
  14. SeKa

    SeKa Registered

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    I Know where codemaster products are to buy, and if you come around the idea nice for you. I can´t hear anymore that speech amounts of money. Funny, that people who conforming this way, can only talk about the money. You don´t wish to accept another mind, do you? I can attempt to tell you what it *is*. But it is allready tald along the forum, which wouldn´t be understood. So it makes no sense to start again with that. We already understand why ISI will do this, how much it will cost, how much is it in each currency. So, it is just fair to let the people to articulate their minds, without start the same argument repeatedly against a different one.
     
  15. deBorgo83

    deBorgo83 Registered

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    Precisely what I've been wondering. :confused:
     
  16. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I type too much lol

    I may well have misunderstood. Unfortunately being a forum I can only rely on comprehending what you write, so there's no guarantee I'll get it. And the fact we're talking in a thread where the same views have been restated again and again means I might sort of assume you're going down the same path others have - sorry if I'm wrong there.

    For reference, this is the sort of thing I was responding to:

    I took 'hidden earnings' to mean you thought ISI were taking a sly approach to grabbing more money. Then you've compared to rF1, which I don't see the sense in because it's a separate, standalone product. (if the rF1 matchmaker were being shut down, so people not in established leagues would have trouble playing it online, I'd see more reason to compare) Then you've talked about the community helping make rFactor a success, which is why I pointed out it just made it easier to do what the community would have done with other games in its absence. And finally you appear to have suggested rF2 needs to attain a certain level in order for the community to do the same with it.

    We can sit here speculating all day what people are discussing in their leagues, or indeed anything else they might be doing while they're not here; all we actually know is they're not here. I don't believe there's a widespread backlash against the payment system, and there's no proof either way.

    Personally I think the most resentment about this whole thing will be among people who played rF1 without paying for it; yet, perversely, on this very forum that logical conclusion somehow got twisted around so that someone suggested people who had no problem with paying extra on top of existing running costs (server, forum, etc) felt that way because they hadn't paid for rF1 and therefore had lower costs overall :confused:

    Pension fund? Why do you assume this money isn't actually going towards making rF2 and its content possible, but instead is just icing on top?

    So you're happy to need a secure logon to combat piracy or whatever else ISI's looking to do, and pay £70? That converts to US$108 right now, so that's $44 + 5x$13 ($109, but close enough). If you put that money aside you could pay for rF2 for 6 years use. What's the issue with paying them a bit every year instead? (put the 'yearly' money aside in an interest-attracting account and you might even come out with a bit spare lol)
     
  17. the_last_name_left

    the_last_name_left Registered

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    @seka - I already said I hated the idea at first, so I understand, somewhat.

    On reflection I realised there really aren't any substantive issues - hence I've changed my mind. You don't have to do the same, of course, but without anything substantial to be concerned about....there's nothing substantial to be concerned about. :D

    If it is the money, well, sure. That's understandable, but it is a very small fee. On the other hand, if it isn't the money......err.....what is it?

    I settled on considering it to be an anti-piracy measure, a way to reward ISI, some assurance (hopefully) that ISI continue, that we get tracks and mods homologated (if you will). If you can't do it without paying, presumably pirates can't? And it's 25c a week. Small beer. And if you're online anyway...... [I have more sympathy with complaints about LAN, but la de dah.....tough. :D]

    I don't want to stop you complaining though. Just saying.
     
  18. SeKa

    SeKa Registered

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    No, sry, i´m not complaining but 25c week or more isn´t the point. The point is more, I payed my own levis, but have to ask if I wish to go on the road with. People are annoying about home calls also. Believe me, it is not me. I know and understand ISI, and trust those guys to. rF1 was a brilliant deal for us all. I´m sure about, that rF2 going to be a better deal. I wrote what I mean. It is unfair to give the new incoming people here always a slap with boring 'money calculating argument'. Because not all people thinking about money.

    You can´t change my mind, which established as: we have to wait and trust ISI the first 12 Months. ISI and this community build us all rF1, with realy richly content. This whole thing earned confidence in advance. We will see what´s going to be happened. I hope, nearly I´m sure, ISI will know how to collect the money for the second twelve months...

    ... nevertheless I have fullest understanding for the people who need LAN to race!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2011
  19. mikeyk1985

    mikeyk1985 Registered

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    Just wanted to say that it's really sad that ISI have kept this wonderful, pure racing game alive and these pages are full of angry moaning comments.

    I can't wait for the Beta, I'm on the of the few people who really enjoy playing OFFLINE and have only ever played online a handful of times. 12 dollars or whatever it is, is peanuts if it means a well maintained playing area that works consistently.

    Be greatful this title even exists please people! :)
     
  20. pitkin

    pitkin Registered

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    The only way to change things is to make your opinions heard. If we sit and quietly accept everything, we could then just walk into situations far worse. If your not happy with something, let them know. Actually, I bet they don't mind, as long as it's constructive. It's how they learn about what their customers feel about things. They are providing a product afterall, how that product performs financially depends on how well recieved it is. If it failed for whatever reason and we all just sat and didn't say anything, how would they know what to improve to make things better?

    If they didn't like it they could close these threads, but maybe they feel there's something to be learnt here, from this open debate. No-ones been nasty as far as I can see, maybe a bit of flipancy here and there, but on the whole it's a mature discussion.

    12 dollars IS peanuts, but paying those peanuts every year (3 times in my case, if I want to LAN with my sons) for something I don't want to use, so I can get something else would cost them nothing to give us for free (dedicated server), is going to mount up.

    Please ISI let one subscription cover multiple machines from one account or IP address. I'm not against paying one sub, I am against paying a sub for every machine I own to play LAN.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2011

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