rF2 biggest challenger?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by taufikp, Nov 28, 2012.

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  1. Max Angelo

    Max Angelo Registered

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    AFAIK, the architecture of the replay system doesnt take in account the real-time physics, but only its graphical representation.
    You can add fidelity, and the graphical representation of the in-game physics will look more close to the real-time physics, but stll the replay is a different animal.

    Noel pointed that the size of iRacing replays are 5x the size of rF2 replays, that happens because in iRacing the replays store the physics data of the player.

    Now, imagine how big might be a server replay, if the architecture was based on the storage of physics data ... 20 clients in a server= 100x (5x per 20 clients) the size of a replay in rF2?

    A rF2 server replay, weighting say 100 MB, might be about 10 GB?

    And these calculations are based on iRacing ... have you seen how intensive is the CPU load of tgm?
    Ie, the huge amount of data required for the physics math of rF2 tires?
    Here we cant give evidence, but i would not be surprised if rF "physical data" were 10x or more, compared to 5x of iRacing.
    A server replay that now is 100 MB might weight 20 GB?
     
  2. Jamezinho

    Jamezinho Registered

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    That AC video looks stunning.
     
  3. Niksounds

    Niksounds Registered

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    +1 incredible

    in rf2 can there may be two type of replay...
    low quality for server.. high quality for users... i have big hdd today, from years
     
  4. Kknorpp001

    Kknorpp001 Banned

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    Ouch. Makes sense. Thanks. So it sounds like potentially impacts all three areas of storage, performance & architecture change. Sounds like a big problem. Caramba! What about tire sounds. Is this a challenge or just something that needs to be done?
     
  5. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

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    That calculation can't be true as server does not save every players all physics data. Most of the physics data is calculated and presented only locally in players computer, and not sent over internet to a server. The server replay file is actually smaller than player local replay data, as it does not record any car with full fidelity (unless server host is driving in race) simply because the data does not exist.

    In offline AI race the replay file can get pretty big depending on how AI cars are saved into replay. I can't really comment how much rF2 would eat data with full fidelity, but I think such option should be available... At least so that the suspension parts would move and align correctly in replay!
     
  6. Max Angelo

    Max Angelo Registered

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    I remember a tool, available for Nascar 2003 (Replay Analyzer), which was able to analyze telemetry data from the replay and i can assure you that in that game the server replay size was way bigger than the client replay.

    I dont know iRacing and i have not interest in it, but i guess Kaemmer didnt rewrite from scratch the replay system and that the 5x size of its replays is due to the trasmission of physical data.
     
  7. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

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    I remember that tool too, but it is still very little data compared to physics calculation data :) Of course servers should have option of what data they want to store, I don't see why telemetry data from all cars should be that important..
     
  8. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    And many other thing's. To mention one, alone the deflection of the tire wall while passing a curb with a open wheeler's inner Wheel and how the flex carcass transmits forces, that it is visible even above the tire. The best i can feel the not equal rotating forces.

    I can't see something deflecting on AC's tires, even not visual.
     
  9. BlaringFiddle5

    BlaringFiddle5 Registered

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    I for one buy all decent racing sims .... I'm going to be buying Race07 on the steam sale later today :) $6.50 for Race07 and all the expansions - can't beat that.
     
  10. KernigWRC

    KernigWRC Registered

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    IMO Race07 isnt realistic to drive.
    The tires feel strange.
     
  11. Kknorpp001

    Kknorpp001 Banned

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    Would like to know what you think of it.
     
  12. 88mphTim

    88mphTim I'm new here Staff Member

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    iRacing replays (edit: or rather, saving of them) were initially turned off when the sim launched, because they were HUGE. You would end a race and not be able to go back and watch the start, either, because the buffer was filled. But again, things change, iRacing reduced their size, added cameras, field of view, allowed saving of said replays, etc - after they were public. I'd like to think that we'd be given a shot at doing the same. :)

    Edit: And again, I feel I need to point out that driving physics came first for us. They were the priority in the early stages, we're improving graphically, and eventually we'll work towards ways users can share that improvement on places like Youtube.
     
  13. 88mphTim

    88mphTim I'm new here Staff Member

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    Most clients were not seeing most of the cars. Same back to GPL, where as a client you would get the 5 or so infront, and 1 behind in your replay, while the host had 20 cars (the max).
     
  14. o0thx11380o

    o0thx11380o Registered

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    So far there is no other sim that I can think of that feels as good as rfactor2 does. The feeling of the physics is just not matched anywhere else, and that's why I keep playing rfactor2. Its just amazing.
     
  15. Max Angelo

    Max Angelo Registered

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    Thanks for the clarification about iRacing. :)
     
  16. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Physics is number one for me, I do like replays & hope to see them improve if possible & where possible,

    I'm happy to think the main focus for ISI is always physics, everything else is second
     
  17. Gonzo

    Gonzo Member

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    No, not always, but different cars require different abilities of the physics engine.
    rF2 came with a physics revolution (tires) and now things are getting tweaked.
    They re always improving in every area. In rF1 there were improvements in all areas, graphics, physics, content, user-interface, server and multiplayer, ai, etc.
    rF2 comes with more complex physics, so the focus might be a bit there, but that does not mean that the other programmers stop improving their stuff.
    In the beginning of rf2 people complained about ugly graphics, now they are rare ;).
     
  18. FAlonso

    FAlonso Registered

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    I think it's an improvement, but I can live without. iRacing does not have and is the best time simulator (iRacing has nothing). Graphs also Assetto Corsa is a breakthrough that helps the realism.
    http://games.reveur.de/images/screenshots/assettocorsa-1361301650_5123d092ad1c1.jpg

    rFactor2 has many good things (tire deformation, realroad, rain and dry [This what I like], night and day ...) but has many negative points. (very bad optimization, graphics prehistoric, online, clutch malfunctions, replays, prehistoric loading times ... and a long etcetera.

    In my case, the negatives are very annoying. The TP looks and a fully finished game, little can be improved, everything is well done, very professional. However in rFactor2 there are many things should improve.

    If rFactor2 optimization were to approach the iRacing (on my pc 200FPS + -) my opinion would change much, but have to reduce the graphics to exceed 30 FPS at Silverstone or Monaco with no pilot bothers me. I do not enjoy anything of the simulator for this reason.

    Hopefully soon find ways to improve this.
     
  19. yifter

    yifter Registered

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    Forgive my harsh words, but if F. Alonso could read this, i think he would say: This is a load of BS! sry

    For the image: nice image, no dynamics. There you go ...
     
  20. coops

    coops Banned

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    AC: cant even race a league, a long way to go yet...
    IRACING: so over rated its unbelievable, only things i like scanned tracks and sounds......
    RF2: bagged out over trying to bring new things to SIM RACING and not doing it quick enough...LOL
    In my eyes RF2 is the best just cant play anything else.
    RF2 is its own best competitor as no other SIM is pushing the boundaries like RF2.
     
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