Thanks JKA, but the whole problem was, those lines were coming there, but towards waypoints on the other side of the track.......not a path nearby to drop of the pit line and go into the spot....... But; GOT IT now! Enormous headache, so will elaborate on how later (if desired).
Oh mate, my sides when I read the safety car line.. haha! It's all good and all I see is your passion aching to get out. I had to have a day off yesterday to get that doco sorted. I'm willing to persevere with this as long as you are. Just for a little bit of background, as to why we are here. You'll notice when rFactor 2 came out, it was really rfactor 1 with new features. Everything had 'a pass' to bring it up to a working state... a foundation if you will. Since then, when we see a feature enhancement released, like the CPM for example. We see that it has not just had another 'pass' it is now properly rFactor 2 and not 1.5. So for the consumer, AI has had many improvements, likewise for the editing side. However, I'd expect such significant revisions to the system that there would be little point in bringing everything 'placeholderish' up to speed in a transition period. I'd think you are 75% of the way to becoming accomplished at AI creation. I also think that Illustrates my point that this is not a difficult exercise if enough information is available. I'd like to think that your discovery process will be inspirational to others so that they can experience what we do. Take care of yourself man, and please do. I'd be interested!
Well, "you guys" are good teachers and so I know a lot more now! I'm very grateful and don't be mislead by my nagging along about all this stuff; I ran into problems and couldn't sleep without solving them But so I kept asking and hopefully not too much. Anyway; essentially I had to alter the main path and race line. I was lucky the time intervals were not outside the new track and the new tarmac had RR. What happened; I redid the new main path BUT the pit line (in this case first line and extended) were gone too and thats where the whole shebang started! When I redid the pit line; the waypoints from the pit spots were gone OR hooked up to very different waypoints; points at the beginning of the pit path or even some on the main path at the back straight, rendering the AI not to stop in the pit lane but driving through and running out of fuel later on. I made the pit spots again but there were no waypoints showing up, not even after double saving. When they did come up, wrong connection lines again. Also; when they did show up; I DIDN"T have to save twice....... I did of course, but had no use to the connections. I think the devmode AIW making thing is bugged; there is no telling if- and when it sets waypoints for the pit spots; I tried all kind of things, all kind of orders.......nothing. Sometimes they were there.......sometimes (in the same order I did it again) not. I had messed up a lot and started to work from ISI's tut; a clean sheet. The pit spot problem stayed the same btw. I loaded the track and my car was IN the safety car........ I made an empty AIW file and just copied the garage spot from the old track in there; problem solved. I realized later that I could have put the AUX lines in there just as well. Now the ONLY thing that worked for me concerning the pit spots; make spots first, THEN make the pit line! When I did that, tested it twice, I had waypoints and connected properly. What came to mind just today; the problem started with the pit line being gone after making a new main line.......because they are connected. What would have happened when I disconnected the two lines first? Make a new main path, connect again? I'm going to try that out tonight (but safe a copy first ) and will hang myself if that works; could have saved me days of work! On the other hand; you do learn more when it's not going that easy....... Making lines over and over again......connecting the pit path over and over again.......you learn new tricks and eventually get a very nice transition between the two. Now; AI is just 0,5 seconds slower than me and there is room for a bit improvement in the fast line; I will fix that. The garage spots in the paddock, away from the pit line, are now (with one open end) connected to the pit line by setting a new extended line past the boxes. They all drive out nicely and find power smoothly; almost no deceleration when pit meets main path. They come in, take fuel and go again in race; I tested and about 7 came in together; all worked fine and no one was hit I drove in the same race and I have to say; setting a proper fast line really pays off! I had the nicest run with AI ever; no sudden- or early slowdowns and accelerating out of a corner was spot on. There were no easy overtakings because of weird slowdowns or hesitating accelerations. The pylons/cones were in the scn file and I wiped them out with the // as suggested here; works fine! So; thank you all again guys! I learned a lot, got me a nice "new" track and am a happy man
Been playing around some more with the fastest line and looked (just for the fun of it) how aggressive the AI could drive As it turns out; they don't like it that much You can see it on the video (thought that might be fun) that the car unsettles to much with their default setup. Higher curbs, a bump (hight difference in track) with a curb or fast curbs.......they keep correcting. They are 0,3 faster than my former fast line though and now come up to 0,2 seconds off my time (for now). But there is room for improvement, you can clearly see. Made the video by phone so sorry for the poor quality (and sound!). Also sorry for the cones still there; there is still one row I thought I had removed.......guess not. AI is now invisible to me and so they go straight through them. Anyway; the video: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13313246/IMG_4133.m4v
-Nope.. I want more content. I want more people to race. I want people to love rF2 as much as I do. You can see why now that you've had a taste! I've learnt everything I know in the last 12 months but only because for the first time in my life, I've had time to. I remember the days when relied on others for my happiness, now I make me happy... and I've seldom been happier If I can share some of that, it only helps me in the end. -A mistake is only a mistake if it is not learned from. -This has me intrigued... It might just work. I know I've had the same problem in the past but I've never attempted this solution. - I guess this is why there are so many options for tuning. In this example, I'd create 'tighter' lines without touching the kerbs. Adjust the setup and use training. They will use room if they need it, riding up the kerbs and such, but it seems a bit smoother somehow. However, I suspect you've already tried a variant of that with not so great results. -This video is great. Just casually watching first time through, I'm wondering when you are going to catch the AI to show them Leaving everything exactly the same, how much difference is there with 2 clicks on each gear and say another 3-4 rear wing? I'd bet that'll will settle them right down and give them a little extra for the last sector.
Altered the fast path a bit more and got them faster; 54,5 and that is the same as my time. Maybe I can get them even faster, but I don't want to be humiliated by them either I know what you're saying, but for now I kept the setup the same, just for comparison. When I go and do an actual race; I give them my own setup anyway. But now I got them faster with the aggressive line than I could with the less aggressive one. And its all immersion for me; driving behind a car that is just as fast and drives a clean fast line, doesn't do it for me; I want to see him push, bang over curbs, just like a real driver would do when chased, right? I want to make him sweat I "found out" another trick also. I got the line reasonable; most of the turns were okay and so I didn't want to change the fast line again because redoing it for 2 corners 30 cm to the left........chances are I was to mess up other corners again. So I used the corridors and the blue lines in them. When I wanted them to steer in just a tat later, I brought the lines out at the first part of the corner a bit. When they used to much curb; I brought the lines out where they did that the most. well, and so on and so on In that light; you don't even need a fast line; just bring the blue lines into play around the track Would be an awful lot of work though, hehe.
Downside of narrowing corridors is that you're taking away racing room, passing room. You can narrow things down to the point where the AI can't attempt a pass or get around a spun-out car.
Yes, that's true; didn't think of that. I wasn't planning on doing that of course; just thought it would be theoretically possible. For now, I just guided around curbs a bit and won't do anything more with them. Thanks for chipping in!
I'm the same. To explain just a bit further. When we open the corridors the AI still follow the fast line but have greater room for deviation. This is especially significant with the AI training as the talents come into play at this level and you will see differing lines... no train effects. Curiously, I found by creating a fast path without using kerbs but allowing the corridors to be fairly open, the AI did still use the kerbs. Whether or not it would be better than what you have now is debatable. Of course at this level, it's a fine balance and playing with it is just another facet of this fantastic hobby for me. It all depends what we are driving. If we use corridors to restrict open wheelers, how do the tintops react! With Fast paths, we can define specific ones for the cars that have that parameter, but corridors are global. So if you are publishing the AIW, the advice would have to be no way. Just use them as intended. For personal use, McGyver the crap out of it.
I get your drift Matf1. However, I just used some of the lines and just a bit. As you said; fast line can be around the curbs, but the AI can still take those curbs. With the faster open wheelers, the AI don't take those curbs nicely......lets say we would take a curb with 30% throttle and let it roll as it is the only way to go at that point; the AI does not. They try and rev up and when that doesn't work, they sometimes even brake and/or slide to much, making them spill time by correcting. So I used the lines to get them of the (mostly) inner curbs. Your "how to" helped me out a lot, thanks for that. As your typical prototype for a newbie, I ran into some things that might be of use for people who want to start out fiddling with the AI also; no need to reinvent the wheel, right? Those things were; - selecting a waypoint has total depth, meaning; when you select one, all those behind it (be advised, the ones you don't see!) even at the other side of the track(!!) get selected too.........got in trouble many times with that. Of course this gets worse when you select a whole bunch together. - when making a new fast line, all is okay and you can't mess up a lot. However; making a new main line, removes your pit line too and you have to redo that and hope the lines for going to the pit spots connect properly. In my case, they didn't always........ - when you set the blue lines from the corridors a little out; the "cut track" lines go with them. Funneling for instance can take up a lane width, right? When you take that lane, you get a "cut track" message. You can readjust them, but after you made the blue lines. - when making a pit line, you connect to the main path; after you made (or redid) the fast path, it connects to that one; smoothing the path connection should be redone after the fast path. Maybe this could help a bit for newbies like me
Excellent. I wasn't sure if you'd considered that as a viable option. That's interesting behaviour and I wonder about two things... Are the kerbs realroad enabled? Not sure if I can tell with the encrypted mas. Does this behaviour change at all with AI training? Yep, those things you mention are... or will be in the latest version of my document for AI common problems. Too many projects taking my time right now, but I hope to have that finalised by the end of the week. About the waypoints. I initially thought you were commenting on how when selecting an individual waypoint, any adjustment obviously affects the waypoints around it. I'll need to mention that in the doco also. It sounds like you've been exclusively using cockpit view and the same car? TV, overhead or chase views adds height which will allow easier selection of individual waypoints. Skip Barber is an excellent car for this work due to the cameras and visibility.
The curbs are railroad, yes. I just finished training the AI with the .ini file (calibrate=1) and the .wis file (calibrate=2) but on both; they don't go faster. Sometimes they keep a bit off the curbs, but not always. Interesting; the .wis files only say: "understeer under throttle" at every corner.......no mention of the back sliding out.......and thats what happens mainly. To prevent this, as the AI got warned now for understeer when hitting the throttle; they now are slower. The waypoints; when I select one or two even, in depth there is another part of the track behind it, even with walls or dunes in between and they get selected too. I even got 5 waypoints selected at the whole other side of the track! Try it; select a few and drive a lap.......you will see red ones. Or your car must face the outside of the track of course, but you can't always do that. I did use in car vision as I couldn't seem to figure the zoom out. Just -from the 3 in car options- the highest position and that worked alright; I could see properly. I know the other waypoints react when you slide one, but that is not what I meant; its really other waypoints that get selected by you when they are behind the one you do want. I used the same car the whole time as I want this track to be for that car; the DW-12. It has good visibility too when high in cockpit.
