Remove rFmod Petition

Discussion in 'Component and Mod Packaging' started by Wrinkly Man, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. ZeosPantera

    ZeosPantera Registered

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    No it isn't anything technical. Don't join random servers. Race with friends in organized communities and everything you need will be provided and matching.
     
  2. osella

    osella Registered

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    I know my rambling won't change much [/manipulativeToneON] but from me, big +1 against this new packaging system, I would be 100% happy with rf1 system.
    Why change something that works. OK, so there were mismatches. It's not like this system actually solves that issue. That issue is impossible to solve as long as anyne can create 1456445 versions of his favorite car or track. The difference is now you also have to download lots of stuff you don't need!
     
  3. kro388th

    kro388th Registered

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    I think you apposers/Modder's have your reasons but for me (end user) I can see the benefit of the system and after building a few vmods I'm rely liking it !
    I think there is a misconception about "downloading tons of duplicates" "filling your HDs" with repeats of this, that .. that's not true in the case of vmods anyway .. You only have to download a new track ONCE as long as its on your HD the vmod will filter to it with any mod/vmod combo and the vmods are quite small and downloadable right from matchmaker/server it takes maybe 2 sec's and installs its self ! wow ! and when your done with that vmod or theirs a track update or new track you still have to download the track right? that's the same as rf1? and 2 clicks to uninstall a vmod is not that much of work load is it ? open mod manager find it ,right click uninstall then delete it from packages seems simple enough..

    If you have/build a new Mod they will be larger in size including new components n all but the tracks should already be on your hard drive so no need to include them in the mod you simply build a vmod choosing the tracks then leave it up to players to download the tracks as they would in rf1 so they have them on there HD's ,find the server , the game installs the vmod at the matchmaker and NO mismatches. ..it seems simple to me ..

    I'm no modder so i cant comment on the packaging of mods but the end result to me is a simple easy way to race on any server that you find to your liking with only a few clicks ..
     
  4. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    There will be plenty of modders who are big enough and smart enough to get over the hurdles without bitching about it.

    As I said before how would a intelligent person think at this stage they will change the system.

    I mean take 10 seconds to ponder that before you answer.


    The ONLY ones I worry about are NEWBIES and this will make life simpler for them, it already has.




    If there are things that make rF2 harder to mod then rF I feel for you, but that's life, get on with it. :)


    P.S.


    Oh hit me with my reputation for having a opinion.

    Take a Bow, Take your best shot .........


    FACTS

    There are more modders then not who will just " get on with it "

    Only a fool would think this system will be changed.

    I worry about NEWBIES .......so sue me.


    All I said.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2012
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  5. Slothman

    Slothman Registered

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    I think the biggest issue with people acceptance of the new system is layered.

    - Change. People hate it. What cracks me up is the arguement that "we will move to something else"....why? So what your saying is instead of learning this one, you will move to another one, which you will have to relearn as I doubt it will be identical to rF1 which, lets face it was seriously flawed, people just worked around it.

    - Lack of future knowledge. So far ISI have not provided us with the "end goal" of how it work, just snippets. For me, that information,based on other items I have seen, discovered and figured out, means it will be awesome.....but without that future goal a lot of people will struggle in acceptance.

    - Lack of completion. This for me is the biggest issue. Without the seperation of skins, sounds and other "modules" that ISI have hinted is coming, it does make it very hard to see the forrest for the trees.

    I can see the final solution, of where I think this is heading, and it is good. Unfortunately with the way it has been introduced I can also see why people currently hate the concept.
     
  6. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    There are some more genuine reasons too, for example newbie not knowing much of at all from modding, with rF1 it was so much easier to one stumble upon engine file and test what happens if changing this number a bit, then soon he gets hooked and we have new modder in making.

    With current system one really needs to read instructions to be able to figure out how to get into modding, that is if one has no any experience and that will reduce number of people getting hooked.

    I have tried to smoothen out this by creating instructions and now they are even in this boards Wiki, but still one need to find them, read them etc. No longer quick edits for installed mod that has some obvious flaw, which there are almost always some, with limitations of time and people there is no way to really get everything bug free.

    These issues have nothing to do with what you have listed, which of course can be reasons for some, but there indeed are more reasons than those you have listed.
     
  7. Slothman

    Slothman Registered

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    Well I dunno, that scenario listed above to me, is the change thing.

    A potential "modder" will need to have the inquisitive mind to investigate something anyway. They will ask, endevour to discover. If you don't have that mindset becoming a modder will be difficult to begin with.

    There is already "pre installed" the rtrainer and joesville within the Devmode to help get that spark ignited.

    But as an example as you have used above. Lets take it to the extreme to make my point about the "will of the modder" for rF1. How do they know which file? How do they know how to open it? Where to start??

    You could not just "stumble upon engine file and test what happens if changing this number a bit, then soon he gets hooked and we have new modder in making." Some research would have been done to begin with. Its that want to change and modify which automitcally makes that individual an inquisitive mind so they will always crave the knowledge and information.

    Honestly, the only real different thing a "potential" modder needs to do know, is learn how to use the MAS tool.

    I do think you are onto something though, although I have seen what your saying from a different point.

    The new system (as we have it, and that is the key point...ISI have already suggested it will be changing) will certainly make it harder for the more "casual" mind out there. Yes there will be more effort required to do so, but not that much of an adaption for those already doing it.

    So that then brings into question and debate another topic. Is it a bad thing to "discourage" casual modders? Does the new system mean that more "dedicated" modder/teams will produce better quality mods? Interesting thought hey?

    Personally I am not too worried until we find out "this is is, absolutely no changes" and than it will be awesome to see where it leads from there...good or bad.

    After learning about the new tire physics over the weekend (OMG, they are freaking amazing.....far more advanced than anything out there which means harder to learn, but WAY more potential for sim racing goodness once nutted out), I think it will require a FAR more enquisitive and exploratory mind than rF1 required....so why not have a system change??
     
  8. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    In rF1, you really did not need any research to edit engine file, just look into folders, engine.ini kind of pops out and most can figure out how it works by bit of testing, just double click to open :)

    Yeah, there is rTrainer, but mostly it goes so that you have one cool car that you like and you start to wonder how to make it work bit differently, then peek into files that you did install before by unzipping, so you already know what files make mod tick.

    In my opinion any hurdle there can make one loose interest and forget attempts of modding at that point, but if you easily can do that it may lead into deeper and after that one might get interested so much that starts to research more.

    It is bit same like some experienced programmers tell newbie not to start with any visual languages as you will never learn with those to program, probably over half of the people will walk away from even attempting to learn coding as wall is too steep to climb, while with visual language they might get hooked enough to keep going and at some day get that idea behind coding.

    I don't think that there is much to be gained by making that step steeper, modding community is so small already that more new guys would be really welcome.

    I can see that in future less and less people get into modding because of that, it will not have impact right away, but as current modders move on, there would need to be good supply of guys coming to replace them.

    It really takes years to make a modder, especially with cars as complexity of car handling is indeed something that requires lot of work to get right.

    I just can't see any point in doing all that by a hard way. I always think that car maker don't need to know it all, as long as he can stay withing sensible range for parameters, as even that would be improvement for many cases, but some wants it to be hard so that no poor mods would come out. However more time needed to learn way, less time to learn how do it properly and with modding any aspect that takes more time is setback because of limited time people have.

    I have no trouble with new system, I have figured it out and I can see there could be good in it if few before mentioned things would be implemented, but I can see how it affects things in future.

    Edit: I got one silly idea, what if in car tuning screen there would be a button, "make this car editable in dev mode" one clicking that would end up with car copied to dev mode and can go ahead and do edits there, that would be really user friendly and would most negative issues away :)

    After I figured out that I can install all mods ingame, I have had no longer issues with installing them unlike with mod manager that mostly gives trouble when attempting to install mods with that, so it would be kinda nice if making car editable would be as simple and handy as installing mod via ingame.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2012
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  9. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

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    That's pretty sh**ty attitude. So what the system is broken, modders will just "get on with it".
     
  10. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    Modders are getting on with it.


    I don't give 2 flying wombats what you think of my attitude.
     
  11. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    ........and further more all the people I have talked to in my room (F3 ROOKIES ) and PMs about this thread.

    They may not post here but they think it is rubbish.
     
  12. Nige

    Nige Registered

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    Hmmm too be honest I find the system easy to understand. I've never had a problem with RF2 so far, only for its poor performance :( I have spent more time configuring RF2 than I have with sorting out the mods. But like what Durge says, modders are intelligent enough to cope with this. I dont get mismatches with RF 2, if need be I just say 'get mod" then there we go. But obviously this system not everyone agrees with but I like it. :)

    EDIT : Im sure ISI will give a read me about it for newbies when it goes gold.
     
  13. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    .........and I tell you another thing I am outspoken and pig headed, drivers tell me that in my room all the time. ! hehehe

    At least I have the guts to accept others views without hitting their REP or like some gutlesss pimple faced lowlife sending me PMs he is a girl and wants to send me pictures. Tim has seen it.

    You got the audacity to start in on me, show me a single comment were I got "personal" . lopl
     
  14. Diavolo

    Diavolo Registered

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    Online Racing:

    rf1:

    - download and install the needed car mod
    - download and install the needed track(s)

    start gaming


    rf2:

    1. download and install the needed car mod
    2. download and install the needed track(s)
    3. download and install a (maybe) unwanted additional track
    4. repeat 3. until you have all tracks that are used in the needed vmod (and this will be more and more with every new track)
    5. download an install the needed vmod
    6. repeat 3. and 5. every time a new track is released

    start gaming


    looks not really like a reasonable feature to me ...
     
  15. Abriel Nei

    Abriel Nei Registered

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    Let me fix that for you:
    rf1:

    - download and install the needed car mod
    - download and install the needed track
    - get a weird error something about a mismatch something something
    - find out what that error means and what is the problem this time (car or track mod)
    - search for the web for all tracks with the same name and download every track and then found out that you still have the mismatch (finally find out that you have to update the track to XY version)
    - repeat for car mod

    - repeat for every car or track update

    start gaming


    rf2:

    1. download and install the needed car mod
    2. download and install track(s) from the ALL tracks torrent
    3. download and install the needed vmod (most of the times just press the "Get mod" button in the game)
    4. repeat 2. and 3. every time a new track is released

    PS: If you can't install some vmod you get the exact problematic component with name and version.

    start gaming

    Sounds like fun?
     
  16. Diavolo

    Diavolo Registered

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    Sorry for U ... but i had never any problems with errors or missmatches in rf1! Just make sure to have the right track. To make this possible in rf2 a simple info (maybe a link) in the matchmaker would do the job!!!

    But combine endless tracks and maybe track versions too, only to prevent missmatches is just stupid ...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2012
  17. Abriel Nei

    Abriel Nei Registered

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    Oh so we are playing the "i had never any problems with ..." game. Sure I can play that too:

    Sorry for U ... I don't have a problem with installing a track AND a vmod (the horror) every time a new track is released.
     
  18. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    thatll be 1 huge download in 12 months :confused:
     
  19. Abriel Nei

    Abriel Nei Registered

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    You can select and download only whatever you need.
     
  20. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

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    Just imagine, all the conversions from rF1 and then scratch made for rF2 and then also other conversions from other games and everything else. Yes. We are going to download 50gb worth of tracks every week.

    :rolleyes:
     

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