Remove rFmod Petition

ZeosPantera said:
Sometimes I wonder if anyone at ISI even reads all the forum posts. Poor Tim never seems to know what is going on and even when he is here it is like he has to make phone calls to consult the actual people with the knowledge and decision making ability.
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Nobody reads all forum posts because, people have a job to do. And absolutely nobody is going to reply to everything to say "I read this post." But we do a pretty damn good job of seeing things whether or not we notify you.

Not sure I understand what you are trying to say about me really. If you'd prefer me not to consult people than I can do that, but I'm not completely sure what it is I'm appearing not to know...

If it's dates, well that is always in-motion, if it's specific technical answers, then usually only the one member of staff who deals with that, knows about it to a degree to give a suitable answer... I'm not sure if it's worthwhile for that person to spend hours per day informing someone who can properly inform you, is it? That's like saying the surgeon should be working reception in hospital.

I think the way we do, where they reply if they can, and if not - I try to make sure they know about things - works pretty darn well. We don't miss much between us and it is more important that they know about the bugs you find, than you know that they know. Thanks.
 
Why not have this kind of content types:

- MOD (car mod, maybe contain tracks if they want)
- TRACK (always singular, only tracks allowed)
- SERVER PACK (a bundle of the above, but not in terms of data, just a datafile specifying what a server is running)

You could have other content types, the sky would be the limit. Maybe someone running a server has created a full skin pack, could have a content type for this, too, etc.

These are all maintained in a web database which creates a web entry for a "SERVER PACK" (rfactor2.net/packid/553243248892), then we all get directed to this page and it lists every mod used in this package, then the league or server creators have their own page on this site that must be maintained. Like this:

My server League

Included in this package:
- Enduracers 1.11 (installed)
- Spa (Mr Belgian) - v1.2 (need update, you have v1.1)
- Mid Ohio (V-LM) - v1.9 (not installed)
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All of those are links to the true content pages, like:

rfactor2.net/modid/r234n23429
rfactor2.net/trackid/89809809809
rfactor2.net/trackid/99089035353

This way, content creators can continue to work as theyu always did, if not better because they have a central place to showcase their mods. Server leagues or admins can create custom packs containing any "content type", plus perhaps special additional functions that allow those mods to be customized using a hook system, where the orignal mod (enduracers 1.11) stays the same, but the admin has modded a cars bhp in external files. It's easy to do this type of thing if the system is designed to manage it.

I don't know if the above is in line with anything the mod system is currently trying to, but as a web designer, when i think "easy to use mod system that allows all users to be fully aware of what's available and going on", a full on website database with powerful backend tools would enrich the experience to another level, and to me, it's the only way to handle this that makes any kind of sense. In-game systems or custom apps just crumble into the 1980's compared to a browser/db experience.
 
Foxtrot said:
Finally, I agree about the mess lol, that's basicly what I've said from the start there will practically be hundreds of virtual mod's doing the same thing. The system is fine for racing in an organized league, but for the casual racer this will be a major pain in the ass.
The more user-made tracks that get released will make it even worse.

I can see it now, find a server that is running your favorite car and track, somehow find out where to download the modid thing, then discover you have to download 30 crap tracks that you have 0 interest in...wonderful
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Just to give you all an idea of this I just updated to the latest build. Everything is working fine. I never seam to have the issues others have all the time. ( Touch wood!)

I have build 60 installed but I haven't touched it since installing that.

Now installed build 69. Not been online since before the first update so I thought I'd check it out.

Ok To the point.
Server list.
Megane Trophy
Server running ALL ISI tracks.
28 servers available. 11 Yes to my install.

Formula Renault
Servers running ALL ISI tracks.
10 servers available. 5 Yes to my install.

60s F1 mod
Servers running ALL ISI tracks.
31 servers available. 12 Yes to my install.

Now this is just a example of ONLY 3 mods ALL default, ALL default tracks and I'm already limited to 50% or less choices of servers I can join when ALL those servers are running what I have installed.

The MODID's have been changed. This is the reason for this;

Please don't refresh your mods (or ours) yet

Clearly there may be some other issue, so rather than creating a confusing array of different versions of the same thing, feel free to wait until tomorrow when I get more info.

Sorry I don't have more info yet, but I would hold off on creating duplicate mods if you can... As making your own 1.2 of our mods means when we make our own 1.2 things get weird.

Cheers,

Tim
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http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/4575-Please-don-t-refresh-your-mods-(or-ours)-yet
 
No MOD ID should have been changed. What you are probably encountering is different builds being used, no?
 
Tim Wheatley said:
No MOD ID should have been changed. What you are probably encountering is different builds being used, no?
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Yep you right Tim. Just checked for that and the servers that work for me are running Version 1.042. Those that don't are running Version 1.029.

I admit I didn't think that people would not have updated the servers as soon as the update was available. But as I said, I DON"T get the issues others always seam to get all the time. My install always works fine.
 
Theres also servers running ISI mods virtually linked to ISI tracks. So new guy buys the game and installs all ISI content yet cant join those servers.
 
D.Painter said:
Yep you right Tim. Just checked for that and the servers that work for me are running Version 1.042. Those that don't are running Version 1.029.

I admit I didn't think that people would not have updated the servers as soon as the update was available. But as I said, I DON"T get the issues others always seam to get all the time. My install always works fine.
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Well we released two builds in two days and one had issues, I don't blame them for waiting.
 
Foxtrot said:
Theres also servers running ISI mods virtually linked to ISI tracks. So new guy buys the game and installs all ISI content yet cant join those servers.
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Absolutely, that's how it's working and it's an issue, sure. All I can suggest is to keep discussing it and keep pointing things like this out.
 
Tim Wheatley said:
Absolutely, that's how it's working and it's an issue, sure. All I can suggest is to keep discussing it and keep pointing things like this out.
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For sure Tim. This is a issue that has been talked about since day one and pointed out ummtine times by as many different people.
There's also been any number of suggested fixes for this also.

NOT ALL include getting rid of the ID System all together either.

Some are all for the idea BUT the ID's SHOULD ONLY BE CREATED BY THE MOD DEVELOPERS!!! NOT server owners and/or league admin.

The mod's NEED to be usable WITHOUT being connected to by ID to any other mod! (Mod referring to track or cars.)
In this the mod's can be used individually in any combination the end users choose.

IF this can be achieved I thing so many people would be far happier and more acceptable to the hole MODID system.

The average Joe doesn't want to buy a game they can't use. Within 6 to 12 months after gold release I can see what's happen to me with the build update being far worse but the reason will be the wrong ModID whether it be a rFMod or VMod.

VMods need to go all together. rFMods and updates for the mod should be the domain of the mods creators ONLY.

Skin packs can be implement by using a far more advanced and bug free system much like the one now in place. BUT with this and I think using the current idea If and when a league chooses to open their servers to the public they can still do this by asking their members to only use default skins on a open server. Just as they do now.

Of cause this is just one of the many ideas that has been presented in the thread.

IF this suggested idea follows one already mentioned then congrats, We think alike.
 
I'm not sure how this system was intended to stop or minimise mismatches, because it doesn't. This system actually only makes it easier to know that you have mismatched content, and on top of that, opens up more doors to having mismatched content, because now we have Car and Track combination Series, where before it was only Car Series.

I am for the RFMOD packaging system only because it makes it easier for the end-user to install and upgrade a mod, but the combined Car & Track MODID system makes it harder to use the content.

I propose that ISI goes back to separating car and track content, but keeps the one file package and install system. It would play out something like this:

1. User downloads & installs GTWEC 1.0 (MODID: ISI1050)

2. User downloads & installs VLM Mid-Ohio 1.90 (MODID: 1280)


3a. User tries to join server GTWEC 1.0 (MODID: ISI1050 required) which is running track Mid-Ohio (MODID: 1280); joins successfully.

3b. User tries to join server GTWEC 1.0 (MODID: ISI1050 required) which is running track Nurburgring (MODID: 1281); doesn't have required track so can't join server (but from the server details you will know that you need Nurburgring MODID 1281 in order to join).


4. User downloads and installs Nurburgring (MODID 1281).

5. User successfully joins server mentioned in step 3b.


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So we see in the above example that it's more or less the same join server system as in rF1, where the rFm (series rules) is tied to the Car mod only, but checking for track compatibility both SEPARATELY from car mod and BEFORE joining the server.

Separating the Car & Track content (again, like rF1) also means I can choose a Car Series and race on any track I want with those Car Series Rules, as opposed to having to choose "All tracks and cars" for the ability to race on any track.
 
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Tim Wheatley said:
Absolutely, that's how it's working and it's an issue, sure. All I can suggest is to keep discussing it and keep pointing things like this out.
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Agreed.
The problem is the guy who can change this said his thing in the beginning and seems to have left it at that.

If cars and tracks had seperate id's then a vmod wouldnt even need an id.
 
i have 2 tracks almost ready i have them in single player but for the life of me i cant figure out how to package them up with the mod ID i tried to follow the tutorial and i get lost it would be nice if i could just create the track mod ID without having to add a car to them (watkins glen and Pheonix oval track) there not perfect i need to work on billboard trees
 
Sorry Tim. I was venting a bit and it gets awfully lonely in a thread with this much attention and no official support. I didn't mean anything by it. My only hope is that other ISI employees (the ones who are knee deep in the source code) are reading and understanding the frustration of not being able to simply..


Pick Car, Pick Track, Race.

Separating the car and track packs completely would accomplish this with ease.

Join server, Check track is unmodified, Check Cars are unmodified. Begin race. If there are multiple tracks in a list it can be checked before this marathon begins.

Oh the FFB on the 370 and GTR are excellent.
 
prunn said:
thought it wasn't big enough
+1
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Ding ding ding!
Ding-1.jpg
 
Is that a swearing jar Dave?

If so I must ow it about a grand by now.

The thing is what happens to money from there?

If it went to buy a baseball bat to be used to beat some sense into someone to get rid of or at least massive changes to this ID system it'll be worth every penny.
 
well its 2 months since this thread was created and as predicted the whole rfmod/vmod thing has caused a total mess of online play (and itll only get worse)...our club isnt even bothering with addons...trying to make any sort of vmod database is a joke as soon as another track comes out...

*ISI your wrecking your game keeping this silly idea of yours
 
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