Released Released | BMW M4 Class 1 2021

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Paul Jeffrey, Jun 24, 2021.

  1. Kevin van Dooren

    Kevin van Dooren Registered

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    Never trust Remcoo_O
    Or the LMVS Monza stream....
    I'm dutch;)
     
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  2. Kelju_K

    Kelju_K Registered

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    Anyways. Back to the BMW.
    This is ment for those feeling the wooden tires and that there is no mechanical grip. If you still are here...?

    I think the default setup just has the aero balance bit too much in the rear. And maybe there is little bit too much of it..?
    When you lower the rear wing, even a little, the rear grip vanishes more drastically than usual.
    Obviously you should always compensate every change you make into the setup, with other settings. But usually you can get away with more changes to the rear aero, without it having such drastic effect immediately.
    Doing so, the rear feels really stiff, and there is not much mechanical grip when the downwards pressure (to the suspension) from the wing lowers even just a little bit.
    Increasing the aero gradually, would be much easier to do, than coming down from high rear wing pressure which needs really stiff suspension with very little suspension travel. But the intention with this (having much aero) i believe 100% was to make it easier for you to drive.

    However, this might get you in to a bind a little, if you start lowering the rear wing. As it makes it slightly more difficult to find the mechanical grip, because the starting point is very stiff and has little travel.

    I suggest making a very soft setup, and move the aero balance to the front with ride height adjustment, to have more neutral starting point.
    Find the mechanical grip first, as much as you can find it, with low aero. And then start to increase it gradually.
    Don't try to make fast laps when you are searching for the grip. Don't even look at the times.
    I suggest do it by feel, but telemetry software can be useful too.

    You will find that there is mechanical grip, and the tires wear more evenly when you get where you want to be with it.

    Hope this helps!
     
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  3. Kelju_K

    Kelju_K Registered

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    :D
     
  4. Kelju_K

    Kelju_K Registered

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    I don't find any lack of grip in the car...
    Only slight unresponsiveness in the fronts with the default setup, that makes them feel bit wooden.
    Nothing that you can't cure with setup tough.
    Actually very small changes to the setup gets rid most of the unresponsiveness, by making the car just a bit more front sensitive.
    I shared that setup here earlier with the small changes:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/14jbCzqQADy6dYqK6EyS72_k95VSJ1Nkq/view?usp=sharing
    It still has the aero balance in the rear, so it's very easy setup to drive.

    Moving the aero balance more to the front to add bit more rotation to the car, makes things bit more complicated, as does lowering the rear wing even more to make it bit faster, but those are completely separate things. And again, both are totally doable with setup even in it's current state.

    There is that bump damping ride height bug that you found (kudos for that!) and it makes the setup work more tedious, and adds a new layer of difficulty to it.
    The bump stop bug (that you also found! :cool: ) is problem only with extreme values imo, and i don't think such extreme value are needed (on most tracks at least).

    Anyway, since there are acknowledged bugs, they are gonna be fixed, so new version is coming at some point.
    Lets see how it changes things.
     
  5. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    i love this car
    if anyone wants to test my racing setup in sebring for 60 minutes of racing, normal fuel, normal tire consumption,
    quick lap qualification 1,52,792
    fast race lap 1,54,303
    race map: Race
    average target time per lap: 1.55, xxx
    Keep in mind that I am not a fast rider, that to be stable in times you do not have to go strong at the beginning, so that the tires last and only make one stop.
    remember to accelerate smoothly, we must not skid if we want to hold the rhythm well

    https://www.mediafire.com/file/mby465locezqnhr/sebring+60+minutos.svm/file
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
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  6. Imre Bende

    Imre Bende Registered

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    we got error message only with this mod, any ide, what is it?
    package:
    1. original mod
    2. skin package only
    3. custom circuit (its work with other mod)

    some drivers can to join, some drivers get error message and can't join

    upload_2021-11-24_19-28-49.png
     
  7. svictor

    svictor Registered

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    Most likely it's a server mods conflict. Unless the base mod already uses upgrades method for skin(car) or layouts(track), which could coexist if the customized mod also use an upgrades on top of the base, otherwise they will conflict if a player had once entered another server with or without customized mods. (For example, all official paid DLC mods are upgrades type, they have an additional folder with upgrades files; and most of free mods/DLC are not upgrades based, especially for tracks.)

    Try uninstall all server mods(series) that uses same or based car/track before joining server, this can be done using mod manager in bin64 folder, and make sure all related mods dependency is resolved as well (if dependency is not resolved, either it is not possible to uninstall, or game will think mods are damaged and will attempt to reinstall the mod(by auto searching packages folder) in next launch, which could cause more confusion.

    Our league this year had a lot similar issues, all related the things mentioned above, and it is hard for average player to solve themselves, some players even gave up and quit. It would be nice that upgrades type of mods can be coexist even if the base mod doesn't have an upgrades.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
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  8. Imre Bende

    Imre Bende Registered

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    No, the problem is different. We checked it with a new, empty rF2, with new install. Same problem
     
  9. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    If you are subscribed to a package of skins, and after they have updated an official car, when trying to enter the updated car again, it will not leave you until you unsubscribe from the skins, update the official car and reinstall the skins and it will let you in, keep in mind that if there is a subscribed mod the same thing happens with the skins
     
  10. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    I admit, the sound bug is annoying
     
  11. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Just to distill this down: you chose a very low rear wing, which will send the aero balance forward, and now you aren't happy the aero balance has moved forward?

    I don't see why negative rake is going to help by the way. What's the thinking there?
     
  12. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    As already explained, what you see with the logged downforce is the downforce at the front and rear axles. All aero components contribute to both of those.

    Are you sure negative rake is helping the rear wing and diffuser work as well as possible? Is raising the front ride height helping the diffuser?
     
  13. TJones

    TJones Registered

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    I'm a bit surprised to see the channels for front/rear downforce are available.
    I agree 190kg at about 80mm clearence at the front is a lot of load, I would expect something a lot closer to zero here. I think there must be a good reason, why they choose such a shallow reduction (seems to me) of DF with rising rideheight. Maybe you get some strange interaction with Spring/dampers/tyres at high speed, and the front jumps up and down (pumping). Maybe they're limited with the actual aero model and have to make compromises.
    Dont know, just hope S397 find a competend guy for the physics software engineer job, so we could get regular improvements/updates over the year. Not only for one year and then five years pause, I mean every year! :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2022
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  14. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    there could be some error, but the official data must be quite reliable, don't you think?
     
  15. Stefan_L_01

    Stefan_L_01 Registered

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    More or less twice the downforce on front feels wrong to me for a somewhat balanced rear driven car
     
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  16. TJones

    TJones Registered

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    @juanchioooo Could be an error, yes. Let's see if it gets fixed. :)
     
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  17. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    yeah, well, get in the back of the line folks, I'm still waiting for the steering wheel stripe on the Porsche and the corrected forward facing USA flag on the right flank of the C8R Corvette. ((IMPORTANT THINGS FIRST!!!!))
     
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  18. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @Sim_Player better explained, thanks.

    How does the default rear wing compare?
     
  19. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Ok, shame. Still, I think we need to be mindful of what you're doing here, to keep things in context.

    And before anything else: I'm not vouching for, or defending, the physics of the car. I just like to take a methodical approach so conclusions are worth something.

    If the default aero balance is 50:50, and let's say the weight distribution is similar (hopefully slightly further forward for aero stability - yes I'm aware, we've discussed this privately in the past). That would seem reasonable.

    If you then remove rear wing, and there's no corresponding front aero change to compensate, the balance will shift forward. There's no avoiding that - and I'm sure you're not arguing otherwise. The question is how much it should shift. I'm going to guess you don't have a reference for that, so you don't actually know, but evidently a 65:35 balance is too far forward in your opinion.

    Is it impossible that to have a fast car in a straight line, you sacrifice handling (via suspension tuning) to balance this new aero at high speed? Why expect the car in its most slippery configuration to have good mechanical balance when the only thing you've changed is the rear wing?

    So, next question: does the setup allow enough adjustment to balance the mechanical and aero factors and make the car drivable? Again, knowing you have to sacrifice low speed handling, but achieving a net laptime gain (or lack of laptime loss) through better straight line speed?

    Finally: if S397 comes along and says "The aero is correct," do you see enough evidence here (considering the above) to still argue the point?
     
  20. Andrea Terzi

    Andrea Terzi Registered

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    I don't get why every wing setting should be usable... In real life cars are allowed to big setup changes, but that doesn't mean they will all work. If you say that "max rear wing" = "still undrivable car" then i may say "ok maybe there is something wrong". But if you say "i can't use lowest wing settings" then i don't see any point to say physics is wrong. Maybe this issue exists also on real car, who knows
     

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