Released Released | BMW M4 Class 1 2021

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Paul Jeffrey, Jun 24, 2021.

  1. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    God bless simracing.

    I am not surprised if for every red pilled sirmacer there are 10 blue pilled simracers. It takes balls for devs to do something realistically, because blue pilled majority prefers self gratification, imitation of their fantasies, rather than simulating real conditions, realistic challenges and then learning to work with them.

    Anyway, it is just one car of many. I wonder why did you guys pick the car for championship which you have no interest in ? There are older cars from S397 that works in a little bit different way, and would please your paradigm of how the cars work. For example, similar beast - Mclaren Senna, you can be more silly with it, drive it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
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  2. Imre Bende

    Imre Bende Registered

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  3. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @Imre Bende it's quite possible you're right (I'm not saying otherwise). But front/rear temps or wear aren't just a function of a car - the way it's driven, and the track it's driven on, are huge factors.

    The one known thing with sim racing is the lack of speed sensation, and the lack of fear, in comparison to real life. So it seems quite feasible you are simply going in too fast in the sim, and that leads to understeer that gives you excessive front temps/wear.

    Working out which is correct (or where in the middle things are) is going to take more than some static shots or rough comparisons to real life - and I think comparing them isn't actually that easy to do.
     
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  4. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Just for sake of the interest I watched 2018 DTM final, really cool racing. Tire changes happened in 20-30min window after the start. Braking into the hairpin revealed massive differences in cold tires performance comparing to warmed up tires. Commentator who is also the driver spoke about preventing understeer, avoiding lockups. Taking care of tires was really emphasized there. I guess they also not without a reason has that huge switch for adjusting brake bias, and they adjust it often in a race.

    You wouldn't see them understeering much. And it might be not because car IRL wouldn't understeer. It is more likely because drivers are actually pros, and they know why and when not to understeer and they know ways how to make the car turn without loosing too much balance of grip. They know why they shouldn't lock up fronts, and has skills not to lock them. They know about danger of snap oversteer, they know that you can't use lots of braking and lots of cornering force at the same time, they know that increasing steering angle when car understeers only makes things worse. While simracers expect to be driving like Rene Rast while knowing none of that and having mediocore skills. Most of guys really shouldn't be racing cars like those, you should be racing GT4, TCR, Miata, GT86, M2 and similar cars. Cars that has more modest speeds, power to grip ratios. Racing cars like these DTM for most guys is like being average male and expecting to go out in a date with top model while you couldn't properly handle even Formula Vee.

    I also don't say that it is not possible that he could be right, I had some similar thoughts. But it seems to me, that it is typical denial of whole paradigm of how car drives, rather than picking on some specifics, and it is more of a claiming nature rather than suggesting a possibility.

    I have witnessed same happening in ACC early access. When cars handling paradigm was significantly different to AC, much more in depth and sophisticated, people were unhappy, and it wasn't like "I think this and that is a little off in this or that direction", it was complete denial of whole logic, whole paradigm of how car works, it was clear at that moment the people got fully blue pilled and experience in one sim (AC in that case) formed whole perception of reality, rather than it being sourced on evidences from reality itself. Some people were comparing ACC to iR, most to AC. Nobody attempted to source any observations and logic from real life material.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
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  5. vava74

    vava74 Registered

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    He and his group will never have the humility to understand your post Mantasisg.
    Quoting ACC -- which replicates a series which is a gentlemen's GT league, with GT cars where TC and ABS play HUGE roles in their drivability, including on tyre wear -- as the sim that "gets it right" in the context of his group of rF2 players feeling unhappy on how a BEAST CAR requiring MAXIMUM SKILL (ie. not adequate for gentlemen drivers) drives, illustrates how pointless is to continue this discussion.
     
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  6. vava74

    vava74 Registered

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  7. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    Have you also seen how he drives that car? Definitely not like you are doing it :D
     
  8. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    It is a rear-wheel drive anyway, and the comparison was the tire of how it behaves, and it does not have traction control or not?;)
     
  9. Imre Bende

    Imre Bende Registered

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    Don't understand what I meaning. Nevermind.

    Anybody. Pls upload a video with this car, 8-10 laps, and i would like to see the tyres usage.

    I'm one of the slowest in our league, but the best drivers said that too, what i told.
     
  10. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    degradation is excessive, that is clear
     
  11. Kevin van Dooren

    Kevin van Dooren Registered

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    Don't have videos, this is from motec data of a few races I've done with this car:

    Indianapolis 20 laps fixed setup,FL 36%, FR 36%, RL 27%, RR 36%
    Indianapolis 20 laps fixed setup,FL 29%, FR 30%, RL 28%, RR 36%
    Second race had more front wear compared to first race as I purposely steered more to see if it would help with balance late in the race with a dying RL tyre.

    Monza 12 laps my own setup, FL 63%, FR 72%, RL 70%, RR 74%
    Monza 18 laps fixed setup, FL 55%, FR 69%, RL 55%, RR 64%
    The 12 lap race had more FL wear as I was in dirty air most of the race.

    Spa 10 laps my own setup, FL 62%, FR 52%, RL 60%, RR 62%
    FR tyre has high wear due to flat spots.
     
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  12. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Hey mate, just to put those in context, approx how much laptime loss are we talking with tyres down to 50 or 30% left?

    (as we know, that can vary massively between cars)
     
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  13. doddynco

    doddynco Registered

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    You're well over driving the front tyres. This causes excess heat, which is causes them to have even less grip. It looks to me like the ffb is too weak, allowing you to turn the wheel with much less force than would be required in real life. This means that you have too much dominance over the front tyres and so they get wrecked.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
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  14. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Honestly, it looks to me like he is trying to drive the car like the other cars by S397 are driven and expecting the same handling and it just ain't going to happen. Also, comparing tire wear to other cars is a common mistake I've seen being made around here when this car is mentioned. I think 95% on a GT3 or GTE car is about 80% or so in this DTM car, so don't go around judging it wearing too fast just based on the percentage.
     
  15. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    We are using this car in one of our champs and almost everyone stops one time to change tyres (the pitstop is mandatory).
    The duration of the races are 55 minutes and are more or less 30 pilots.
    You have the stats here:
    And i have remembered that some pilots broadcast their onboards.
    Note: I only want to share data. My intention is not to do spam, but if someone bothers, i'll delete the links.
     
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  16. TJones

    TJones Registered

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    COTA might be more demanding on tyres, but at Zandvoort degradation is acceptable IMO, still higher than for AI though.


    Screenshot 2021-10-09 084517.png
     
  17. Kevin van Dooren

    Kevin van Dooren Registered

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    2nd indy race
    upload_2021-10-9_10-42-22.png
     
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  18. Stefan_L_01

    Stefan_L_01 Registered

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    This car is a waste product, isnt it? Its not used in DTM anymore, or ever.
    Was it released for free because BMW has no usage for it anymore? Was it used or intended to be used? Did BMW somehow paid for it in the past?
    We will never know...
     
  19. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    It isn't. Your attitude about what is waste in simracing is wasting of simracing possibilities. IMO best thing about simracing is possibility to appreciate history of racing, what happened, what could have happened, and what could happen in the future. Getting fixed on imitation of the present is of course awesome, but very shallow in whole picture.

    And DTM cars like that were still used just a year ago, those were amazing cars, and I think many people might view this car in rF2 as a nice tribute. And being only one year old it is basically present time. What would you say about bringing up a race car from 90s or even 50s, a waste ?
     
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  20. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    From what I understood, the class 1 WAS going to be BMW's next DTM car until the series converted to GT3.
     
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