[RELEASE] Nordschleife Tourist v1.65 beta

Discussion in 'Locations' started by pleclair, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. Ddigital

    Ddigital Registered

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    Ah yeah I think you're right.
    Well I guess I keep my eyes open for updates and organize an event when the layout allows it.
     
  2. Nor

    Nor Registered

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    100% agree. The curbs are unrealistic and kill the immersion of the track. Please remove them.

    Gesendet von meinem GT-I9001 mit Tapatalk 2
     
  3. cubbi

    cubbi Registered

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    I shared your opinion at first, but came to the conclusion that we have to see pleclair's track more like a Hollywood remake of the Nordschleife rather than the real thing (Karussel is smooth like a superspeedway, year 2k curbs are higher than they have been in real life, wrong pit lane location considering the layout etc) :D

    But if you acknowledge that the author's intention is not to bring the real Nordschleife, but rather a "Nordschleife experience", then I think it becomes a lot easier for Ring enthusiasts to look over those inaccuracies and enjoy the track again :)

    Of course it would be nice if there was some distance between sidewalk curbs and racing curbs, so you could actually use the latter ones without punching your tires, but the only thing I'm currently waiting for is the pitlane being moved so long races are possible :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2014
  4. tking

    tking Registered

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    Thanks Pleclair for all your hard work. I really enjoy this track.
    I have to admit that I really don't care for all the new track side objects, especially on my mid level machine. Then I noticed in the mft file the following. "Max track detail settings enables extra 24h track side objects. Campers, fires, crowds, cars, ambulance, etc...Setting to high results in the tourist only objects being displayed (as previously on max)." Maybe I missed this in an earlier post or install note; but, this is a nice touch and perfect for me. (I thought someone else might find this useful.)
    Thanks again. Really appreciate what your doing.
     
  5. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    I hated the curbs at first too. Now I just think it's awesome and such a challenge.
    The level of immersion and sense of danger is off the charts. Pleclair, you've made this track like a boss. :cool:
     
  6. ZeosPantera

    ZeosPantera Registered

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    How about a copy of the track that is set atop a a fiery lake! You go on the "grass" it is your last lap.
     
  7. Twista

    Twista Registered

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    But then it'd be the fiery hell, not the green hell. Maybe you could make the fire green.
     
  8. ZeosPantera

    ZeosPantera Registered

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    This is a game. Whatever we want is possible.
     
  9. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    I love the selective opinions sometimes. If it was ISI's or any other modder's choice to build those curbs they would be flamed till there was no tomorrow, it's a sim, we want realism!!! bring out the pitchforks!!!!

    Now peclair did something like that and now it is suddenly the best choice ever, the track is just giving the Nordschleife experience, and it's just a game after all, whatever..

    Just struck me as very odd behavior...
     
  10. Esteve Rueda

    Esteve Rueda Registered

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    I hate those stone curbs too... xD

    In some places are more than wrong, overall work It's superb, I really like this track... but when you see those stone surbs go from the end of a normal curb to the begining of another normal curb not letting you to taste them with you inner wheels... It's like arhghgrhgrhgrhghrhg!!!!!!! I want to take adventage from evey cm of this track like I were there in real life!

    You can not attack some normal curbs because of stone ones, It's weird. For race would be even worse, It's even more hard than real life to try an overtake now, if you just touch one stone curb you and your rival are death.

    I hate to say this to peclair, but that was a bad decision :(
     
  11. pleclair

    pleclair Registered

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    Hey guys!

    Just a quick update, I'm knee deep in work atm! I have started something I thought would go a bit faster, but is taking a bit longer... pushing my skills further! Won't say more than this, but you should be pleased with what is coming up!

    On the kerb stone matter, or whatever they are called, like I said, they will stay there. I love how it makes the track look, and how it changes how you can race the track.

    Like it was said, I'm not after re-creating the most realistic, and true to life version of Nord, yet. The reason is, with what we currently have, it is *impossible* to reach a level of true to life even close to 90%. The track is just so off from the real thing, that a complete start from scratch would be needed.

    I have overlayed com8's nord over google earth data's and it is like 90% wrong... it is similar, but if you try to match the dottinger hohe of both terrain, and even then, they don'T fully match, the rest of the track is completely off.

    I have also overlayed simbin's gtr evo nord over google earth's data and it is like 99% right... and the 1% error probably comes from my careful tracing... cause there is a section of the track which is screwed on google earth, so I had to guess what the road would go... so it's probably 100% accurate.

    I cannot use simbin's stuff however.

    So in the meantime, I'm gaining skills, and trying to give the best possible experience with what we have.

    But let face it... com8 did a great job with the track... after driving gtr evo's nord, I can safely say that com8 version is more enjoyable to drive. More steep elevation changes, some corners are just better done or more enjoyable in com8's... for example, the slight s corner after the karussel... the track camber goes crazy... I like that.. it's not like that in gtr's evo.

    One thing tho I do like about gtr evo's is how narrow the track really is. I have measure some 1.5-2 meters difference between com8 and gtr evo at some places.. it's huge....

    so if you are complaining about the kerbstone, imagine if the track what really accurate, it would be much narrower :)


    Also.. I have driven the 24h layout in gtr evo, and the kerb stone I have done in our version also appear in the gp circuit in some places, but shorter... so there must have been a time in nord history where the track had those kerbstone out of the ground...

    So, I'm sorry if this changes doesn't pleases you, but it does pleases me, and it is pleasing some people too, so it is bound to stay like this.

    I know this stuff wouldn't be normally seen at a normal race track, but nord isn't a normal race track, it wasn't made to nurture you and hold your hand, it was made to kill you!

    I have been kind to make sure the angle of the kerb stones after a curb didnt flipped your car, cause on my first try, this is what happened, I had only lowered one edge of the kerb stone and the angle was too steep, so if you hit those after a curb, it would flip your car, now it just make you remember to be careful with those with a large bump on the wheel!

    But if you ever hit a sidewalk with your car, you should know that the bump felt in your wheel isn't accurrate at all, and much weaker than the real thing :)



    EDIT: Hmm, I have finished the guardrails a couple of days ago already (well, the first part, which was to recreate new guardrails objects, with new mappings to the one guardrail texture I now have. I have also played with vertex coloring to color some guardrails near the track start, to see if I could use that instead of creating a new texture with orange and red guardrails.. and it works beautifully, so I won't have to photoshop new guardrails! Good news!

    Performance have gone up quite a bit! But I have also enabled full reflections (except for the objects in the gp area, it's not needed now) so fps took a bit of a hit, but without any real measuring, I feel it is still higher with reflections on than with them off, with the previous guardrails... but you will tell me when the update comes thru.

    I have also redone all tatoos using part of the new road mesh, so they perfectly float 0.001 above ground and don't flicker no more. I have also hunted down all flickers... very few remains now. I think a couple of trees, but since I need to redo the trees, I didn't hunt them down.

    All the paddock is now flicker free, including the bushes in front on the dottinger hohe. The flags, like I previously said, have been fixed as well, and changed texture for a much better one from gametextures.

    I have also redone all the fences as well, remapped them to the right size and merge them and made them smooth like the new guardrails... including those I wasn'T able to smooth on my first fence smoothing a way back... (the ones like in the U corner in tiergarten, the large one with posts and wires going thru them)

    So no fences are stretching now. And I have discovered the spacing tool, and redid the post right on the fences that have posts. So they are spaced right, and matches the flow of the fences, instead of just being random and making no sense.. like a post being 1-2m after the fences bend...

    But this isn't what I'm hiding off :) You'll have to wait a few days to know more about it!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2014
  12. pleclair

    pleclair Registered

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    But it really changes the dynamic of the track, and bring new feelings to the simulation, never felt in any other track before....


    If you manage to run a side of wheels past the kerb stone and the other is still on the track, you will need to fight to bring back the car on track, just like you would in real life, and the feeling what really interesting and felt true to life when it happened to me while pushing a bit too hard after aremburg!
     
  13. Twista

    Twista Registered

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    Cool. In that case, I guess those of us who would prefer a realistic version of the Nord should avoid this and wait for a more accurate/true to life one to come along. :)

    Good luck with your work pleclair!
     
  14. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    It can be a bit hairy comparing com8's track with current google earth material though, sometimes when they update skewing is occurring or stitching weirdness is going on. When he made the track it could very well fit perfectly with the google earth material at the time. As for home use it's fine, but not 100% accurate to start with as there is quite some perspective and skewing going on mostly which will affect layout. Something to keep in mind ;)
     
  15. Jamezinho

    Jamezinho Registered

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    Agreed. I appreciate what pleclair has done/is doing, but I think realism should be the goal wherever possible.

    Anyway, thanks and good luck but this nords is not for me.
     
  16. pleclair

    pleclair Registered

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    You may be right, even now, the whole nord map isnt made of sections made the same year...

    But, when I started, I didnt knew the track well, I remember having played and liked the track the first time in gran turismo 2 I think on the ps1... but few racing games offered it, and as much as I like racing, cars, etc myself, I'm not a huge followers of the racing series on tv etc.. I dont have tv anyway..

    The next time I played this track was with shift 2 version, and it was my favorite track of the game again, and only raced this track once I had it.

    So when I started this, I had very little knowledge about the track, and its history, and I knew it was an old circuit, but it surprised me when I saw it was made in the 20s.. 26 I think?

    Also, when I watched videos of the real track, I would be lost a bit, and had hard time following.... not anymore tho.

    So even if com8's version isnt accurate, you could still train with this and gain knowledge about the real track. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be lost at all if I would ever go there! I would so love to run a lap or couple over there!
     
  17. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    I for sure would be lost indeed, I have no clue what corner comes after the other :p
     
  18. pleclair

    pleclair Registered

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    Well, what I think we could do, is have two objects, one used at different track detail settings, that would turn on the kerb stone out of the ground, or in like it was before.

    I'lll look into the matter for or after the next update.. I know there is enough people not liking the change to warrant such a thing to happen, but again, there is enough people liking it, including myself, to avoid completely removing them and reverting to the old ones.

    I also haven't mapped them cause I didnt knew how to when I was there, now I do, and did a test already... my mapping skills greatly improved since I did this!
     
  19. Max Angelo

    Max Angelo Registered

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    Please, dont use the track detail for the curbs.

    I see a couple of weak points so doing:

    1) people can run together having different configurations and that might bring to "fainrness" issues (lap times, chances of accidents etc)

    2) people might have to change track detail just for one track and this is a bit unconfortable.

    I appreciate a lot your dedication and the quality of your work, my post is just to point some weakness and vulnerability which may happen using the track detail in order to run two different configurations. :)

    Much better imo to create two separate track layouts.
     
  20. pleclair

    pleclair Registered

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    You are totally right... I didn't see this at first!

    I was going to look how to create multiple layouts in the same track package when I had the 24h layout as well, but I think I'll check this out sooner.

    This would be a good option.

    I'm also gathering textures to put up a fall version of the track later on... the new trees I got is comprised of fall and winter trees :) I also have a couple of other grass textures that would fit a fall version.. and leaves decals :)

    Still so much to do!

    Oh, and I have adjusted the tdf further too.... I first had to do it when I had no knowledge of the track and materials... so it was hard, and I went with the sections naming...

    but one thing rather critical happened... the dirty road section, was indeed the high grip section of the track. So I had first made that darker tarmac lower grip since it was defined in the dirty roads sections.

    So I removed the dust from those materials, turned the dust way way down on the other sections, the last step before turning it off completely.

    It also turns out, that when I redid the road and curbs mats (well the name, add the _wet suffix to the mat name) during late 0.97 updates, I forgot to update the tdf.

    So the whole track was running without definitions, and running of the default settings instead of customs.

    I fixed this by renaming the mats correctly in the tdf, and further adjusted grip.

    Most the the track was set at 0.95, now it is set to 0.96. Not a big difference but it isn't where it was needed.

    The bumpy sections of the the track were defined too low, in the high 80s to low 90s.... they are now set to 0.94 and 0.95 respectively. So it is noticeable.

    The karussel was previously defined with more grip than the track's average... 1.02, and that was lost when the mats got the _wet suffix added.. so the karussel was lacking grip quite a bit with the 1.5 smooth karussel. It is now back to where it was, and taking the karussel is more interesting again.

    I have also tweaked the ffb of the bumps and stuff a bit... I think I have a pretty good feeling now. We'll see what the rest of you think on the next update.
     

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