Reiza + Studio397 + rFactor2

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Taris Henrique, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. Godwind Racing

    Godwind Racing Registered

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    My sole frustration with AMS is that, if I run races with more than 20-30 different cars and 106 maximum on track, it crashes. I now cannot run more than 30 cars on track, I suggested to them to override this which turns out was impossible.

    At even a GT3 race, the AI behaves as if they are in a touring car race, bumping into each other and shredding body parts. I once had a GT3 race at Mount Panorama, even though I was slow, I ended up being the last car on the track as the AI plowed into each other like lemmings and blocking the track.

    At best, AMS is summed up as a stock car simulator and being the official game of Stock Car Brasil, no surprise that it is - in contrast to S397's GT3 pack, they can sideswipe hard onto a concrete wall on top of Mount Panorama and is still drivable at over 270 km/h.
     
  2. Narrowbackwing

    Narrowbackwing Registered

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    I do miss playing Reiza great sim ,but the geniuses at Reiza could not implement Vr but 397 did .
    I look forward to Reiza pack it’s years since I tried there sim .
     
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  3. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Sure but AMS runs old rF1 engine and especially physic are not the same level as rF2.
    When I am playing AMS it is like to turn back the time 10-15 years, looks better but cars behaves like in rF1.
     
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  4. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    That's because AMS is a 32bit app, you can run 100 cars if you manage to keep the RAM use bellow 3.2gb, going above that wil make the game crash. Managing that low memory use with cars made nowadays is just impossible. You'd need to go for some very old and poor quality models for that.

    Like I said does not change the fact that it's polished, especially content, something S397 could copy, the level of physics does not change that nor is an excuse.
     
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  5. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    I am not defending S397/rFactor 2 but the truth is that AMS is DX9 32 bit game with old engine.
    rF2 has also cars made by Reiza and they are not more polished than S397 content.
    We just have to wait and see how polished DX11 Reica DLC is going to be.
     
  6. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Polishing something for AMS might be like running 21.1 km around fine track. Polishing something for rF2 is like running 42.2km around the construction site.

    When comparing you have to understand that AMS as a software is very complete, and much lighter, much less complex. It is simply smaller.

    rF2 is still the most ambitious simracing software, even ACC, which is the freshest one in the market is not as ambitious.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  7. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    As I said does not change the fact that it is polished. You polish with what you have, if what you have is too much for you to handle then tone it down (or hire the modders doing it better) ;)
    What cars made by Reiza? When? If they are old were they polished for the time they were released or are you comparing to all the updates done recently when many content did not have any update?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  8. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Ambitions might not change very much. Till the goals are reached. Then it changes a lot.

    That being said, I too agree, that S397 could be more ambitious about some extra things like having top notch 3D models, at least without very noticeable issues. But it might be not possible.

    That being said, it was written in the roadmap that they hired people. I suppose talented artists doesn't come cheaply. I'd say that it also has to be dilemma how much resources to spend on already existing content polishing, and how much resources to spend on new content, which would actually have greater rate of income generation, which would allow to pay the content creators in the first place...

    I don't know how much time does it take for Reiza modelers to do top quality car for AMS, I guess 2-3 weeks. For AC it takes about 4-5 weeks. And thats if the modeler is pro. rF2 is a bit more complex to work with, also has rain and night, which adds up extra modeling work, I'd guess that modelling a top quality car for rF2 probably takes 5-6 weeks for a pro.
     
  9. stonec

    stonec Member

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    Exactly. I remember back in the rF1 days when we had hundreds of quality car and track mods. Nobody talked about rF1 being unfinished. It is obvious to me that the reason they felt more polished was mostly because they were actually much easier to make. Today modders spend years to release even a beta version of ONE track and lots of content stay perpetually in beta. And to be clear, it's not because modders just got suddenly more lazy, but mainly because it takes more time to build content.

    I'd argue that no Reiza car is on level of polish that stands scrutiny inside VR, but since AMS doesn't support VR, this is overlooked. It will be interesting to see the result of the rF2 Reiza pack when it's evaluated on modern standards (64-bit, VR, etc.).
     
  10. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    Im not sure I follow, which is more realistic in your view?
    Have you tried AMS around a track that was given Ai lines by Reiza because i find the Ai in AMS to be quite fair but agreesive.
     
  11. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I really like these two tracks a lot

    Superb flow


    This particular layout
     
  12. Godwind Racing

    Godwind Racing Registered

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    Trying to find out what is wrong with it. Have to say they are in each of their own but I noticed when I ran the EEC converted GT3s (as I call them) with the official S397 GT3s, they behave more aggressively. As with the S397 cars, I assume it's a licensing thing for them to be invulnerable to wall collisions. I will need to have another go at AMS as long as it doesn't cut on me again. Tried HSO's Procar and crashed, same too with the Pumas.

    (both with max aggression setting) I ran the official Stock Car Brasil cars at Sebring with the max of 60+ cars (by combining all 2012-2018 skin packs) thus lots of flying bodywork, wheels flying off and cars left lying on track (I set it up so broken cars are left on the sideline for over 5 minutes to invoke caution flag periods like in real races) before it crashed. Ran the same prototypes offered in the upcoming S397 pack at Daytona and crashed. I ran the EEC GT3 cars at Sebring, it was okay with 60 cars at first (in July) then it later didn't like it and crashed though it was okay with less than 45 cars. Had no problem with the unofficial Turismo Carretera (Argentine stock cars) mods. It's now unlikely I will go back to EEC GT3 mods now I moved onto the official S397 cars to clear up space.
     
  13. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    When you get skin packs if they are 2k you should be fine, but 4k will use a lot of memory. Each track, car and skin will use different amounts of it, Reiza set the max grid size based on Suzuka since it's the track that use more memory.
    If you are using the Oreca 07 mod in AMS btw that mod use a lot of memory, it's not optimized for AMS, just skip it.
    I'm not sure if crashing causes more RAM use, but then if you are creating unrealistic crashes even for the game..... cant complain, can you?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  14. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    Phisycs is based on math...and math will never be old so...stop saying AMS is based on old engine. rF2 engine can't be defined new for the same reason, it can be defined more complex instead (AC engine is newer as release date but phisycs is simplier than rF2).
     
  15. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    How ? How ? If rF2 is successor of rF1, then naturally rF2 is new, and rF1 is old. It has progressed forward. Physics and math, didn't got more new, or old, but simulation was explored further, it got advanced. Naturally rF2 contains more everything, more maths, more calculations, more, more, more. As for AMS I don't know how much they improved comparing to rF1, they certainly stepped it up.

    AC is entirely different development product and needs different frame of refference, it is successor of netKar pro. Even if it was released slightly later than rF2, it doesn't mean very much if it is chronologically newer than rF2. ACC is way newer than rF2 chronologically, but you still can not say that it is more advanced than rF2, and it probably is not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  16. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I wish Reiza picks up rF2 engine for their next title, and works simultaneously on it with S397. Same engine and two different versions of the sims based on it would be great IMO.
     
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  17. Godwind Racing

    Godwind Racing Registered

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    Correction: it's Reiza's forthcoming Metalmoro prototypes, the same cars that is coming on rF2 - never drove the Oreca there as I had fun with the GT3s
     
  18. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    There's a fairly major problem for Reiza putting their next version of AMS on "rF2 engine" as far as I can see.

    Reiza were the only ones who had licensed the rF code, who had not subsequently then created their own complete engine. They took the code and replaced sections of it e.g. for turbos, gear changes, engine wobble etc. and wove it into the code. But I'm not sure that is going to be possible any more.

    Where S397 is taking the rF2 engine, they have a UI and the core simulation code, and eventually that gets rendered to an output device(s) [VR, triple screen, single screen]. I've got a sneaking suspicion the rendering code now is not going to be extensible in the way it was. And Reiza had fundamentally changed that rendering code (new HUD, TV-style displays etc.). The S397 code now is going to make use of some HTML type elements to perform that final render/overlay, and it's performance critical. They've already taken away the ability to render like people used to with the add-on HUDs, and not really replaced it. So this is problem number one.

    Second, there is all the other UI elements for setting up a session, selecting the cars/tracks etc. that I think they had leveraged older rF code to do so with extensions. All of that code is presumably being retired. The new UI is again HTML based, but as we've learned, they've horrendous problems patching that into the existing game engine. So is it going to be possible to create a new/different implementation of that UI? I'll call it a branded UI. Reiza have the license for Stock Car Brazil, but they need to be able to brand that however SCB want it to be seen and possibly restrict what can be done. In effect they would want to produce a "game within a game". If you look at Sector3, they've kind of been able to do this with DTM and other series.

    It's not simply a matter of releasing content packs, which is what we'll get initially. Those will use the S397 new graphics standards and physics e.g. tires, but all other game features will be S397. I'm not sure that when you buy "DLC" or "Inventory" from Steam, they can also package up DLLs etc. that will produce add-in physics, HUDs etc. so that they can change core elements of the sim. So even if they were to provide the "Reiza Stock Car Brazil" pack into rF2, there's lots of things they can't do with it. And I'm also fairly sure they will have kind of lost the ability to take the rF2 engine code and build a completely new standalone game from it; or at least, they'll have to do a boatload more work to build a full UI, multiplayer hosting capability etc. to surround the core engine.
     
  19. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    Alot of this needs to be seen, when the new UI is finished. As I understand it, the problem with the old UI in rF2 was that tiny changes took lots of work. So in that regard S397 should be fine once all old functionality is transfered as the HTML based UI should be easier to expand and change. This could also make it even easier for Reiza to create their own stand alone game based on rF2 in the future. That plugins that render to the screen, aren't working right now is down to the delay of the UI aswell btw and nothing that was disabled just to make the game less customizable.
     
  20. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Yeah I think with HTML stuff things are even easier for other studios to build their own versions
    Plus S397 said they are limited on the amount of DLC reason why they sell items instead. That means actual DLC system can still be used for some specific cases. ;)
     

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