Reflections on state of rFactor2 at 18 months

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by stonec, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    rFactor2 has now been out for round about 18 months and the paid beta period has ended (as my understanding is subscription is now active for 1 year and ends June 2014), which means I will consider the product as out of beta now. Hence I think it's a good time to take a look at what works and what doesn't. This is neither a full review nor wishlist but just what I feel rF2 does well and what it needs to improve on, from viewpoint of an active league racer and league admin in FSR.

    Content

    This is the strongest point of rFactor2, along with the physics. rFactor barely had any licensed content but rFactor2 already has, if not great, at least a satisfactory variation of cars from different eras. The progress in the making of new content has satisfied me as a customer. New tracks and cars are not released very often, but the quality has taken big steps from what it was when the beta was released. Almost all cars have improved distinctively, both in terms of looks and physics.

    The modelling of the latest cars and tracks such as Marussia, Lime Rock Park and Silverstone is top notch. There is nothing comparable that would be better done in the other sims I have tried. With just one car yet to be updated to component form (Formula 2), this is definitely the part I am most satisfied with.

    Physics

    The most important aspect of any simulator, in my view, is the physics. rFactor2 has a completely newbuilt tire model in which the tire construction itself defines its properties rather than just a mathematical model. This makes exciting things such as deformations and realistic flat spots possible. The model is yet poorly understood by modders, but for the ISI content it works quite well already.

    The feeling on track for me is that the car is much more "alive" than in rFactor and easier to recover from a semi-spin. Some users have criticized that the feeling once you lose grip is too much on/off. I don't agree with this. Some cars such as the Megane can now be driven perfectly in control even with a big slip angle. Other cars, such as the C6R are somewhat less controllable. Overall this is a matter of fine-tuning the mod's tire parameters; I believe the physics themselves are a top job.

    There are a couple of issues which yet deserve highlighting. As the contact path is not yet properly modeled, tire pressure has little effect. I hope this will change soon. Secondly, there is an imbalance with front/rear tire wear and temperatures. On almost any car and track, the front tires get significantly hotter and wear much quicker then the rear tires. This forces drivers to use unrealistically low front cambers on all cars. It seems that most of the heat/wear is generated from lateral load rather than longitudinal, which would explain why the rear tires on some cars have virtually no wear compared to the fronts. This is something that must yet be balanced out.

    Force feedback is another aspect of the physics that has seen a somewhat mixed reception. Personally I think it's the best in business and works very much like I expect it in most situations. The feedback from the track surface is excellent and accurate, as are the forces in high-speed corners. In low speed I would yet wish a little bit more feedback from the tire, but overall the experience is the best I have had in a simulator.

    Other aspects of the physics have not changed very much from rFactor. There is turbo, DRS and hopefully later KERS implemented. There are still a couple of aspects lacking that I hope get worked on at some point. Mostly importantly, a realistic clutch. Secondly, engine setup options such as the mixture and throttle map, which are quite fundamental.

    Graphics

    Graphics are certainly the most debated aspect of this simulator and it is obvious they are not the strongest point of rFactor2. The strong point of the rFactor2 graphics engine is that it is dynamic. Everything from dynamic lighting, dynamic shadows, rain, daytime transitions etc is possible. This is not the case with competitors such as Assetto Corsa and iRacing. In the right conditions (dawn/dusk), rFactor2 can look stunning.

    The number one problem with rFactor2 graphics engine is its performance. I can only speculate about the reasons (DirectX 9 engine poorly optimized to run on new GPU's?), but the performance is not as good as I expect it to be. This is not such a problem when running a single monitor, but it becomes a problem for triple-screen users, who are required to buy unrealistic hardware in order to run the simulator decently. This is of course a problem that maybe ISI hopes will solve itself as time goes on and the hardware gets upgraded. Still, there is plenty of room for optimization.

    The second problem relates to other aspects that are not properly rendered/optimized in the graphics engine. One aspect is the LOD levels (details at various distances). For example the shadows get drawn so close (at least on my settings) that it kills the immersion. Same goes for some other details of the car and environment. There are also problems with certain reflections; for example the daylight shader at the moment is tweaked too dull, meaning that the cars and the track surface won't reflect sunlight properly except for in dawn/dusk conditions. HDR itself has still various aspects that needs to be worked on, such as auto exposure while inside a closed-wheel car cockpit, which makes the track look overly bright and ugly.

    Overall I feel that the biggest challenge with the graphics engine, apart from performance, is to get the lighting correct. ISI now offers various HDR profiles for each track that have to be separately deployed. Some of the custom profiles, such as the ones from the user Tosch are very good. The problem with this approach is that most users will simply run the default profile and judge the graphics from it. I feel there are still a lot of aspects that can be tweaked on the default profile which would reduce the need for users and track builders to work on own profiles for each track.

    Overall I feel that more focus should be put on improving the graphics engine. At moment there is somewhat of a discrepancy between the artwork (e.g. Silverstone) which is top job and the somewhat unfinished graphics engine.

    Sounds

    Sounds are not my expertise area, but I will comment on this shortly nevertheless. There are cars that sound very good (C6R, Nissan GTR), and then there are cars that sound less good (such as Marussia, Formula ISI). From my understanding the sound samples for most of the cars are of high quality themselves. The improvement would mainly come from changes to the sound engine which have been mentioned here as well. The environment does not yet impact the sound as it should and some critical sounds are missing, such as floor bottoming, proper downshift and rev limiter sounds for the F1 car. This is one area I have personally more patience to wait for improvements to come, but it's still a very important part of the sim and is definitely not ready yet.

    Multiplayer

    Multiplayer was perhaps the strongest point of rFactor. With rFactor2 my opinions are more mixed. With the new mod packaging system, it would be expected that the user could join quicker and more conveniently into an online race. The reality is a bit different at the moment. Users have to search for content such as all tracks used in a session before they can join. In my view, the only way this system will work is if all content can be downloaded automatically. At the moment this works for ISI content, but not yet for other content, at least not to my knowledge. Once the servers start offering auto downloads for every component I am confident the game gets more popular online.

    There is one other big question mark with the multiplayer: the collision model. This is not only a multiplayer but also a physics issue, which is perhaps the biggest problem with rFactor2 for league drivers like me. Over the 18 months I have seen a couple of small improvements to the collision model, but the fundamental problem remains the same, whether it is in the collision detection or in the physics. After a contact, cars (especially open wheelers for some reason), exhibit ping-pong ball like behavior, which often creates a chain reaction and thus a mass collision at race starts with cars flying in the air and bouncing off the ground several times. This behavior is still painfully obvious whenever I race online and often results in a DNF without own cause. For professional league use with a live broadcast this is a deal-breaker that I hope gets addressed in the very near future.

    There are a couple of other features that have been worked on regarding the multiplayer experience in rF2, one of those being driver swaps, which worked somewhat unreliably in rFactor. Driver swaps, together with making race rejoins possible, will make the endurance racing experience that much improved from rFactor, which I am personally very excited about.

    Other features, bugs, etc

    Regarding the UI and the managing of mods, there is obviously still work to be done. I have personally taught a couple of new users into the world of rF2 and the ease of use could definitely be improved on. A new user will likely not understand the difference between a "Car" and "Multi component" in the mod manager. Or understand to deploy a preset rubbering profile on the track. Many of these issues would require a complete re-design of the UI though. For a more experienced user such as myself, the UI isn't a big issue.

    Regarding bugs, there are a couple of inconvenient ones and some new ones that seem to get introduced for each new build. For example, I keep losing my controller when loading a track randomly. Sometimes realroad does not load correctly, other times parts of the realroad are missing on the track. These are somewhat of an annoyance, but as the product gets more polished, I would expect the amount to decrease.


    Finally to sum up, my impression of rFactor2 at moment is that it's somewhat of a mixed product in its current state. There are things that are done so well (physics, artwork), that it makes it somewhat painful to see that other parts of the simulation are not there (yet). It's definitely a game I will be enjoying a lot in the future, which is specifically why I wish I was able to pinpoint some of its current issues, as once those are solved the racing experience will certainly be awesome.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2013
  2. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Gosh I read all of that, thanks for posting,

    The collision model is something that really needs to get looked at ( as well as impact/tap sounds etc )
    Critical for multiplayer & will really help polish this sim
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2013
  3. CosmiC10R

    CosmiC10R Registered

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    Me too... a nicely presented and well reasoned post... Thanks for that...
    I havent seen the netcode but for league racers I could see this being vital... I spend more time fiddling with files and settings than driving but thats my affectation...

    I think it is fortunate it is still in development since this might mean these things will be addressed rather than having a gold title that will only get likely 2-3 updates...
     
  4. Nick88

    Nick88 Registered

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    I have particularly enjoyed this new build. I agree with the above though that there needs a lot of graphics optimization it really is not there yet and still struggles on many PC's.

    I think the multiplayer damage model needs heavy revision, especially in open wheelers, the GT/Touring Cars seem ok but still body work falls off far too easily.

    Tyre model is much better and you feel more connected but the setup variables do need work along with the contact patch. Cambers are heavily unrealistic.

    The weather is fantastic but it is all too quick. The track dries to fast and then also it goes back to wet very fast.

    Overall, I think it is great for Touring Cars/GT Cars/Endurance. But for anything open wheeler it is just not there yet and not league ready on that front.

    At this point I think ISI should stop releasing new and more content and fix the bugs that people are identifying and get it on a better, stable platform.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2013
  5. coops

    coops Banned

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    i thought after 18 months it would be more stable platform but as there is a demo out now hopefully we wont have to wait long
     
  6. Empty Box

    Empty Box Registered

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    It's been out of beta for a while, the meter just started running recently however.

    I laughed at the content bit, LRP modelling is indeed solid, but then again the circuit has about 5 objects total. Graphically, anything pre Silverstone is inferior to any of it's competitors. The quality has improved, but I'd consider the Marussia and Silverstone the only truly quality pieces of content that stand up to modern competition. The Corvette was quite clearly modeled in 2009 and it certainly looks it. The artwork up until the last couple of months is clearly last in class. Now it looks like they may have stepped into 2013. Sadly, I fear it will be butchered in favor of those who have rigs that really need updating.
     
  7. mclaren777

    mclaren777 Registered

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    I think rF2 has the best physics on the market, but I'm fairly disappointed by the pace of development.

    I really didn't expect it to take 18 months to get where we are now. I assumed that ISI had tons of content just waiting to be released (eg, the image below is over four years old) but that doesn't appear to be the case. Unfortunately, the development of rF2 has felt more like it was coming from a talented modding team than a dedicated studio. Content has been slow to arrive and some features still feel rather unpolished. And with modders like feels3 and Tuttle making extremely beautiful cars and tracks, it's hard to understand what's taking ISI so long.

    I realize the team is incredibly small, but so is Kunos Simulazioni. Perhaps most ISI guys are only part-time, or perhaps the geographical distance of the staff stifles progress, but it's getting hard to continually defend the glacial pace of development and I feel bad for Tim because he bears the brunt of our abuse.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Olivier Prenten

    Olivier Prenten Registered

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    Personally I find the platform very stable (just a few bugs to be fixed)! Imho it shouldn't take that long to reach the gold state! ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2013
  9. TTupsi

    TTupsi Registered

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    I'm sorry I had to grab this one. It's been stated over 9000 times that different people are working on these two areas so it wouldn't matter if ISI stopped creating more content.
     
  10. alpha-bravo

    alpha-bravo Registered

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    :) yep and I'm happy with the new stuff.
     
  11. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    good write up OP, missed the offline advances with AI though, they have improved greatly since the first build and are a pleasure to drive against...better than humans in some cases!

    agree with pretty much everything else, one area of concern moving into the demo period is lack of technical support. threads go unanswered for days even weeks and that's simply not good customer service so that area needs a kick up the bum.

    not noticed real road issues you state and not seen any threads regarding this, suggest the bug forum and picture evidence on that one.
    the wheel not working when loading a track is new to me in this build and bug noted in the relevant forum.
     
  12. Coanda

    Coanda Registered

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    Well written Stonec and I agree with 99% of what you have written. I don not subscribe to the front tyre issues & using extremely low cambers as a band aid. With the right setup I am able to run 100lt run at Sebring in the C6 with even temps & wear whilst keeping very good pace.

    Only using two cores, Directx 9 and all the graphic issues are really hurting this product for so many users.
     
  13. FatCity

    FatCity Registered

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    Great write stonec, I agree with everything you said.
    I especially agree with the graphics performance. I just upgraded to 3 monitors and have had to turn a lot down to get reasonable, non stutter performance.
    On single screen I had around 50 to 60 fps but it was smooth and looked great.
    my system is what I call in the top half, being a 965x4 BE with a 2 gig 7870 and 16 gig of ram.
    I wasn't aware that only 2 cores are being used, I hope that gets changed.
    I think the physics and FFB are unsurpassed from anything I have used, the FFB out of the box just doesn't need to be touched and the cars at each upgrade just get better.

    One thing I think is especially good is the sound and I notice it the most on a non ISI track. Take any tin top car ( I don't use the open wheelers as much ) out at Mid Ohio and as you come up and over the hill the down under the bridge and run wide near the fence, the sounds echoing off the wall are incredible, and I'm only using the realtek sound that is built in to my MoBo.
    so once the graphics side of things I sorted and some extra content and online bugs are sorted, what more could we ask for in a racing simulator.
     
  14. C3PO

    C3PO Registered

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    Well written and well thought out piece. Agree.
     
  15. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

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    +1

    Regarding graphics - I would also point out that the AA needs severe optimization.
     
  16. MaD_King

    MaD_King Registered

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    I totally agree with you analyse stonec !!!!
    For me the priority to be able to use the game is Optimization to gain FPS and the Collision issues (there is no deformation at this time, I think it's the reason of bouncing cars).

    The other part will follow. But these two major points today avoid us to test in deep the feature and so lock modding motivation ;)
     
  17. BlaringFiddle5

    BlaringFiddle5 Registered

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    +1 to the OP. I disagree with the assessment of sounds, however. I think the sounds in rfactor2 are quite well done if you consider only ISI content.

    I further think that if ISI would implement an rfactor central like web area for mod content and some sort of area to promote online racing, such as might be found in race2play or something ... I think that would go a LONG way to get more customers. Many people are only interested in online racing.
     
  18. Jamezinho

    Jamezinho Registered

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    Good post by stonec and I agree with pretty much all of it as well as the opinions of others in this thread.

    As much as I love the driving experience of rFactor2, my overall feeling about this game is one of disappointment. I think much of that is down to the glacial pace of development. I've owned this game for a year now and it doesn't look or feel massively further forward today. Many small issues are not receiving fixes, online is cumbersome, the UI is ugly and in general the game can be a bit bewildering to newcomers.

    Graphically, Silverstone is excellently modelled and holds up well against other racing games, but that comes at a huge cost in terms of performance. Lime Rock looks good but otherwise most tracks are quite ugly with poor textures. Lighting is hit or miss, shadows pop in and out all over the place, replays look terrible with no DOF. Sorry to blunt about it, but that's how it is for me. We kind of have a two tier product where some cars and tracks look great, others not so much.

    The lack of DX11 and more than two core support could prove to be a mistake for such a resource hungry game. Are we all expected to be running Titans or GTX780s to get the best out of this game? Call me cynical but ISI are probably hoping that calls for graphical optimisation will fade as we all upgrade our GPUs over the next few years. Much easier than optimising the game.

    Then there is the Nvidia vs AMD issue which never gets addressed. AA isn't great either. I hope ISI find a way of improving performance.

    What about the modders? Many are put off by this game. rFactor2's success will depend on mod content, ultimately.

    So much work and optimisation to be done that I wonder if this game is far too ambitious for such a small team?
     
  19. BlaringFiddle5

    BlaringFiddle5 Registered

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    well - you do have to consider that they are targeting at least a five year arch for this game. If they made it so that the game ran flawlessly on today's hardware, then it would look sh*t on tomorrows hardware. I personally feel that the game looks nice enough - especially the cars. It runs better than iRacing for me... The cars look better to me than iRacing as well (higher res textures + more realistic looking materials). I guess we will see when AC comes out ... the tech demo shows that it may look like a champ but i had to drop all the settings to nil to run it: i7 3770 - 16 GB RAM - nVidia GTX 680 2GB
     
  20. Barf Factor

    Barf Factor Registered

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    Very good post, I agree with it all
     

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