Recurrent NVIDIA Driver Crashes and Erratic GPU Usage

Discussion in 'Technical & Support' started by ECAR_Tracks, May 9, 2016.

  1. ECAR_Tracks

    ECAR_Tracks Registered

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    It's important to have a AMD user here, can you confirm if this problem occurs in all rF2 tracks or some specific as LM Bugatti and /or VLM 1991 Le Mans?

    Would you do a test with Bathurst rF2? This track is passed in my videodriver control-quality while others don't.
     
  2. Yoko

    Yoko Registered

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    Hi there, got similar issues. Black screen on VirtuaLM´s LM91 1.0. Before the recent ECAR Bugatti update also random crashes, now works fine.
    For LM91 I nearly tried everything (switched nvidia driver, changed AA in nvinspector, tested some settings there, tried to change one by one ingame settings like suneffects, special effects, raindrops,... but nothing seems to work.
    My specs:
    Win7 64bit, I5 3570k 3.4 ghz slightly océd to 4.1ghz (tried running default also), Gigabyte Gtx 980Ti, Corsair HX1000W, 3xSSD (1 for RF2 only :)), 16gb ADATA DDR3 2400, Triple Screen with multiview
     
  3. ECAR_Tracks

    ECAR_Tracks Registered

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    Hi Yoko,

    I'm finishing today the full review of my Le Mans Bugatti track. I corrected the following issues:

    • Isolated vertices (no faces connected)
    • "Ghost" smoothing groups in previously detached objects (smooth groups without any triangle associated)
    • Zero meters shadow-out object (this is more a issue with Gmotors Tools 0.25 when you select several objects you perhaps all of them set = 0
    • A lot of useless vertices and polygons which are not visible from any cam either on board or off board.
    • Messed shadow groups
    • Incorrect objects set as "HAT" or "Collide"
    • Messed normals at tons of faces
    • Two HAT surfaces one above the second in tunnels without separation (possible confusion source).


    I'm starting the testing today but I'm quite sure this errors lead the game engine to crash. Now, I think the 100% of GPU occupancy is not the cause of crash but the consequence. My theory is when the Gmotor graphic engine try to dray any screwed object from a certain point of view, the engine crashes and the GPU go to 100% of occupancy due the lack of response from the rFactor 2 itself.

    I have a sensitivy set-up which crashes with LM 91 in few laps and LM Bugatti too (karma, I can't race in my own track). So, if the problem go after cleaned out v1.00, it's quite clear the issue is with the geometry of certain tracks.

    I'll keep you informed soon.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2016
  4. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    Yeah, I think so too. My buddy already had the crashing issue with this track two years ago on a GTX 680, back in the days when rF2 didn't use to crash often.

    I've seen as well that having lots of useless HAT or Collide target surfaces can have a big impact on performance. Nice that you are working on it, let us know how it goes.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2016
  5. DaveS78

    DaveS78 Registered

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    First post here; believe I ran into this issue yesterday. I haven't ran the Le Mans track in a couple months but I wanted to try out the new Makcorp Group C update. Well my first attempt was with the new URD Shiro and I got a massive display driver crash before I got to the first chicane. It hard crashed out to the desktop and I couldn't even close the game with task manager (had to force a log off). I then tried the C11 and while headed down the Mulsanne I got a black screen that lasted a few seconds but the game never stopped running. I was afraid to keep playing so I just turned RF2 off.

    So this is just an issue with the VirtuaLM Le Mans track?
     
  6. ECAR_Tracks

    ECAR_Tracks Registered

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    No, it affects other tracks as well. I can point Le Mans Bugatti (my own track), VLM 1991-1996 and VLM Sebring. There're two stuff that used to work for me:

    1) Use EVGA Precision and force the GPU power (V) to 110%. It doesn't longer work after last Nvidia drivers update, it seems the GPU chipset simply ignore this variable and the GPU voltage keeps low whatever I do (below 85%). When this "fix" was available, the GPU run for hours without a crash on those three tracks. I can't do that anymore.

    2) Use SLI. I've managed to play around with Nvidia Inspector settings and the game processing was distributed among the 2 GPU cars, standing below 60% of GPU usage for each one, this setting allows me a 8 hours test without a crash. The downsides: stuttering. I was forced to use vertical sync (Smooth SLI option) which I hate because it causes lag response on steering wheel. So, it was a band-aid but it allows to race those tracks. I have not 2 GPUs anymore so it's not a solution at least for me.

    3) In progress: I'm working isolating the variables in my Le Bugatti track to find out the culprit. As some tracks can run for hours (and they're so GPU demanding as mine), it's something wrong with those three "defective" tracks (and maybe others). It's already proved it's not bad geometry (vertices, edges, polygons, smoothing groups, face normals) since I checked and fixed everything. Now I'm starting the materials investigation (shaders, textures used, blend-dest_blend options and so on).

    I'll find the problem eventually, but I cannot say when exactly.
     
  7. DaveS78

    DaveS78 Registered

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    I haven't tried any of the fixes you listed (though my GPU power is already at 110% via Afterburner if that makes a difference) but I did play with the Group C mod on VLM's Sebring. I played for at least 30 mins and didn't have one issue on that track. So far for me it's just on Le Mans.
     
  8. ECAR_Tracks

    ECAR_Tracks Registered

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    30 minutes is a short time, leave the AI running alone for at least 4 hours and 25 - 30 AI cars. If it passes you'll be ok.

    Sometimes even Le Mans can run fine for 30 minutes in my system, but I think I never managed to race for 1 full hour without a driver freeze.
     
  9. DaveS78

    DaveS78 Registered

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    It's all I had time for but it was much better than not being able to make even one lap of Le Mans without it crashing.
     
  10. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull Registered

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    i started rf2 with a 6970, worked fine albiet at medium settings across the board, then i moved to the r9 290 and again worked flawlessly at higher settings, but then i switched to a gtx980 and started getting the black screens, freezes, having to restart pc to get out of the game sometimes, i was used to these crashes from back in race07 with nvidia hardware, thats why i went amd but i had read rf2 worked better with nvidia so took the plunge only to find that nothing had changed in the meantime, nvidia still crashes with gmotors titles.

    so after all that, i chopped and changed settings for ages, ive eventually got rid of the crashes with quite high settings still and they havent appeared again in over a year with various mods and tracks that it used to happen with all the time.

    the settings i changed were to have medium track detail, fast shadow and low reflections, the rest can be as high or low as you like and it wont affect anything, these 3 settings or a combination of them cause my problems to the point i kept the gtx980 when i had it up for sale at my wits end with the crashes, now id never think about going back amd.

    driver version 368.22 at present (although it doesnt matter driver version the problem was with any driver for me)
     
  11. Yoko

    Yoko Registered

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    Just a quick update from my sight: never ever had crashes on sebring, ran lots of laps. But I´ve noticed high fps drops on sebring and lemans. The changed settings David mentioned could be useful on some systems i think as the author of the track said about performance:
    "Use the Track Detail and Shadow Detail settings! Both are implemented intensively for you to fine-tune performance. Max/Full settings are beyond what my machine can easily manage. Don't be afraid to use High or even Medium settings, it will still look good."
    As a big Endurance fan I´m looking forward to any updates on this conversation and want to say thanks to ECAR_Tracks and anyone for participating and taking care of this.
     
  12. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

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    Any Nvidia Inspector settings done?
     
  13. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull Registered

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    nope none, i dont use it at all, the only things i change in the nvidia control panel is texture filtering to high quality.
     
  14. ECAR_Tracks

    ECAR_Tracks Registered

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    The tests I'm doing on my track are indicating the Nvidia driver crash is unrelated to the GPU Load. At very beginning, I was suspecting the 100% GPU load causes a driver crash. But, as Dino Paolini has stated (http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...atic-GPU-Usage?p=424359&viewfull=1#post424359), now I'm also quite sure 100% load is
    after the driver crash, in other words, it's a consequence not a cause. The milliseconds between the crash and the 100% usage is misleading. But I'll make it sure after to plot GPU usage graphics in all scenarios I'm testing.

    My flow-chart of batch 8 hours testing is being successfully passed and allows me the following statements up till now:

    Conclusion #1: rFactor 2 + Nvidia 980 GTX can run my track for a endless time lapse without a crash with all geometry inserted provided that I remove night lights and reflections from the track.

    Conclusion #2: rFactor 2 + 980 GTX CAN'T run my track for more than 1 hour (with luck) with all geometry inserted + night lights + reflections.

    Conclusion #1 + 2#: Good and old scientific method: either reflections or night lights are crashing Nvidia driver.

    Assumption one: Night Lights. They're composed by an omni light in SCN file plus a linked light glow. Not my #1 suspect since I got day time crashes. If the insertion of those in SCN leads a crash, I'll compare the GPU usage before and after. If there was not a significant increase, it's not a GPU load cause but something wrong with objects.

    Assumption two: there's two types of reflecion in a rF2 track: cube cars reflection. Track creator numbers what the objects will be reflected on the car's body. Second type is planar track reflections. Cube car's reflections works all the time whereas track reflection should be used when tarmac gets wet since cube map parameter in road reflection is set = 0 (possible VLMs tracks issue? - when cubemap of #6 channel in road material is not set = 0.00 is possible to see tenuous reflections and objects will reflect even in dry tarmac). In all cases, I'll have to insert one object per one until find out which is the driver crasher and try to figure out why).

    It can't be anything out of those 2 assumptions. I'll compare GPU usage after to reintroduce those elements (night lights and reflections) just to make sure it's not a GPU load cumulative problem, although I'm very confident it's not.

    What's crashing Nvidia driver in my track at least will not get away from me. My main hope is the problem be similar to what is crashing other tracks too in Nvidia 900 series. Then we'll be very close to get rid of this annoyance.





     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2016
  15. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    I experienced this crashing a lot last year on a Singapore version I converted and I couldn't pinpoint the issue back then. As it was a night race, it could be a hint that night lights are the issue. Recent ISI tracks all have omni lights too, but probably not as many light sources as these permanently lit night tracks run with.
     
  16. Jka

    Jka Member Staff Member

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    Personally I use as few omnis (NightLightXX) as possible. By increasing intensity multiplier + near and far attenuation, I can cover bigger area with single omni.

    Having too many omnis affects performance and memory usage.

    But every lightpole (or other modelled light structure) contains own glow polys (NightLightXXGlow) on every lightbulb. That makes impression in game, that every "light" has own omni, but actually "lightbulb" contains only glow polys. The track itself can have only one glow object (NightLight01Glow, for example), which contains every "Lightbulb" glow polys.

    Last couple of ovals which I made contains about 20 omnis and one glow object.
     
  17. Pablo11

    Pablo11 Registered

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    Hi
    I have been having black screen problem for few years now with rfactor2. It started with gtx titan6gb card then it continued with MSI gtx 980 and now with my latest card gigabyte gtx 980ti.
    Everytime I write about this problem on forum before i get no help from Isi and they are
    constantly blaming the hardware that cost the issue. Well like for many other people here the problem only occurs with rfactor2 and never with
    Asset corsa ,refactor 1,game stock automobilista

    It is clear to me it is rfactor2 problem
    and I am amazed that Isi never take responsibility for that.
    I find very odd that people invest in hardware and waste their money just for rfactor2 and still get bad results.
    Myself I try lots of things and the problem keeps coming back.
    I hope finally Isi do something about it before is too late.




    I
     
  18. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

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    All right guys, so a new update...

    Just bought a new PC, installed windows 10 and latest Nvidia drivers... guess what??? rFactor2 keeps freezing, erratic GPU usage droping to zero which causes freezes. Sim also stutter a lot.

    What now ISI? Are you going to look at your programming GPU usage/whatever or what? Is it possible to enjoy my favourite racing sim without being afraid it may freeze in any corner/overtake and put me in a wall? Like i read from you it may happen with third party mods/tracks, but it also happened with official content. Anyway are you going to help those modders get rid of problems, or rF2 will not be moddable because of bugs?

    You should look at this URGENTLY!!
     
  19. Atze Kerkhof

    Atze Kerkhof Registered

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    Hi all,

    Same issue seems to appear in our simulator on the FSR Spa Francorchamps track.

    Using a GTX980ti graphics card, triple projector. After several laps it disconnects the projectors (crashes the driver) and after 5-10 sec it re-appears (with the car in the wall). Not very comfortable when you use a 26Nm Bodnar wheel.

    Tried every NVidia setting, uninstall, clean install, old drivers, graphics settings LDR, HDR, but impossible to fix this issueso far.

    I did have this same issue in Game Stock Car Extreme on Patrick Giranthon's Spa Francorchamps circuit version (the only track this issue occured in GSCE). So maybe it is circuit/3d related? Haven't had this issue on other original rF2 tracks so far.

    Hope this helps.
     
  20. ECAR_Tracks

    ECAR_Tracks Registered

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    Are you using SLI? This is the only scenario when I have stuttering in rF2 (actually across all titles). Try to race at Bathrust, you should not have a driver crash. So, stuttering and driver-crashes are completely unrelated problems. Let's kill one per time.

    ISI has stated they can't reproduce the Nvidia 900 series issue , so if they tested with 970 / 980 cards, they're lucky to buy a bug free unity. It's VERY usual to see people complaining about rf2 + 900 series = crash. But again, it's not in all tracks.

    I'm finishing my investigation soon about this issue which was affecting my Le Mans Bugatti version as well. I've isolated almost everything and I'm successfully finishing endurance races without crashes and I'm very close to find the issue which makes 900 series get crazy driver black-videos.

    I don't have authorization to modify other 3thParty tracks(I don't have any issues with ISI content) but I'm quite sure I would fix it as I'm fixing mine.
     

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