rear end feels unnatural

Discussion in 'Technical Archives' started by vilivili, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. patryksok.

    patryksok. Registered

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    Fanboyism? lol. Im telling you, i drove in nKPro many many km and everything Im expieriencing now in rF2 OW is very similar or even exactly like in nKP OW, where you have tons of downforce and its just impossible without proper car setup or beeing familiar with car to catch car when your VERY VERY grippy SLICK tires + downforce loose his momentum.


    thuGG and in real life you feel g-forces, body roll, and that type of motion in your body, so you can react faster and smoother than in every sim i drove ;)
     
  2. vilivili

    vilivili Registered

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    very well said. no matter if my hands are quick enough, this still isn't realistic
     
  3. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

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    Hey, I know how I drive my car. In my 325 I can be pretty lazy with countersteering, I can be late with it, and still I will regain grip. But as I said, it's a road car, driven much slower than racing speeds:) So this isn't really comparable.
     
  4. vilivili

    vilivili Registered

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    if you can't feel the difference between nKP and rF2 it's no surprise you can't understand me or this subject.
     
  5. emilblixt

    emilblixt Registered

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    Thank you!!!
    I thought I was going mad so I just did some A/B testing between rf2 and nkPro and I feel absolutely NO resemblance!
    nkPro is dynamic and reponds to All my input, rf2 does not. True that the weight transfer feel in an open wheeler with slicks is subtle but in nkPro its there none the less! But as I stated earlier, rf2 is in beta so NOW is the time for constructive critisism!
     
  6. Deci=EWE=

    Deci=EWE= Registered

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    I reckon you should just all wait, like the Devs have said.

    1) remember its a beta
    2) the tire model is still being worked on ( yeah becasue its a beta release )
    3) the physics are still being worked on ( why ? becasue its a beta release )

    stop trying to compare it to a full version of anther game. why ? do you really want me to type it again ?

    ITS A BETA RELEASE

    give them some time to sort it out, I know they will.

    and dont worry if they dont you old nancy boy high grip crappy rfactor mods and arcade games will still be there even if you dont like the final release.
     
  7. emilblixt

    emilblixt Registered

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    Yes we know, thats why we´re providing them with feedback. That´s the idea of an open beta no?
    No need for rude comments either.
     
  8. vilivili

    vilivili Registered

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    I am glad its a its a beta release. it is not allowed to point out issues of a beta release? issues that no one else is mentioning. should I wait until the devs move on to a next project?
    I think ISI has had some time already, but luckily there's some time left even we're not far from the rf1 tyre model
     
  9. blanes

    blanes Registered

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    Wow this thread is hard to read due to all the bickering :(

    Can't you guys remain objective and just structure your comments/feedback in a constructive way that may be useful to the devs to improve the things in this Beta that need it ???

    IMHO I think some of it is down to the engine in its current state and also setups and driving style... in my opinion.

    cheers :)
     
  10. emilblixt

    emilblixt Registered

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    Except that a good physics engine should respond accurately to all driving styles.
     
  11. slowpace

    slowpace Registered

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    Having tried pretty much all the driving sims out there and driven different types of roadcars in real life. I think that in rf1 and rf2beta also you have to adapt to the physics engine before you start catching slides etc.. In real life you are able to catch slides instinctively pretty much the first time you drive a car. And also in Live for speed, iRacing and netKar pro it felt the same way. I was able to catch slides instinctively the first time I tried those sims. So yes I think there is a problem with rf2 physics. If we want this to be a realistic sim then hopefully there will be improvements. BUT I am able to enjoy it very much as it is allready.

    Still most of my simming has been on rf1 and the simbin titles. They are great for my casual needs even if the physics arent really quite there..
     
  12. Jose Casanovas

    Jose Casanovas Registered

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    Im with rubber and vilivili, its an rf1 heritage,
     
  13. JonP01

    JonP01 Registered

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    Yes, I agree with this. In the real world, adapting to any new car (within reason) is not difficult and does not require a long period of acclimatisation, adaption or re-learning. It might take a very long time to get 99% out of an unfamiliar car, but it should only take a matter of literally minutes to be able to get 95% - 98% out of a car.

    For me, the acid-test of the quality of a sim's physics is actually how easy and quick it is to achieve that 95% initial benchmark - not how hard it is. In other words, easier / quicker = better, harder / slower = worse. Then again, if little effort is required to get an extra 4%, I think something is also very wrong. In my experience the sims / games that I have stuck with the most and the ones I have found to be the most immersive are those that hold true to these paradigms (Rally Trophy, RBR, NetKar Pro and even - some may consider unbelievably - Shift 2 Unleashed). The CARS beta, despite my issues with force feedback at present, seems to be similar as well.

    But then there are sims for which it seems neccessary to completely unlearn things and start all over again. Examples are iRacing and rFactor 2. In my honest opinion, given these long periods of adaption and re-adaption don't reflect what happens in real life, and nor would it be neccessary in real life to spend inordinate amounts of time at the wheel on a regular basis to remain proficient, my feeling is that rFactor 2 as it stands does not represent an accurate facsimile of driving a car.

    I used to be a real fan of these "difficult" sims, but certain things have changed my mind over the last couple of years. I began to question the notion that I had to spend rediculous amounts of time playing with them to remain proficient, whereas in the real world, proficiency is maintained when the cars are driven far less frequently. And then there were certain "tests" performed by one simulator publisher (of which I had been a fan), where they took people who were highly proficient at the sim and placed them in the real world. These people did extremely poorly in the real world and were no better than someone who you could pull off the street. It was then that I began to lose my enthusiasm for these sorts of "difficult" sims (of which I believe rFactor 2 is one), and began to seek out sims and games that I could not touch for a week, then get into an unfamiliar car and track and be mostly up to reasonable speed within a few laps, but then have a significant challenge honing a very fast lap time consistently - which is how it works in the real world.

    As someone else said in this thread, it should actually be quite easy to drive a car. It's winning that should be the extremely difficult part. If a sim is reasonably accurate I should be able to jump from sim to sim to real car back to sim and be totally at home with no adaption required. I don't find this with rFactor 2 but I do find it with all the other sims I listed above (except iRacing).
     
  14. Bigfish

    Bigfish Registered

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yJBXcxRTZY
    Strange... thats one of the sims u werent impressed by.. but hey went straight into a real car and went pretty amazing..


    I think the way the rear end steps out in the rfactor 2 is actually quite realistic, the megane is hard to catch because of its wheel base, anything over very small amounts side ways should be nearly impossible to catch in real life..

    The Renualt open wheeler should be very hard to catch, its very light and balanced while driving, but when u hit the breaks, it tips forward and at low speed there is virtually no weight of the rears, making it want to step out, also making it very hard to catch.. small angle and corrections with the wheel and throttle combined can keep it in check and put some of the balance back into the rears, but there is a point of no return at low speeds where no amount of lock or throttle can bring it back, if u could always save a car in real life, nobody would spin... and this video seems to show quite a few spins.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc_JImKqalc
    even under a warmup lap in a f1 car http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feXvqfttAuw
    it goes beyond a certain point and it cant be caught..

    also at high speed the as soon as the car goes side ways at all, it instantly loses ALOT of downforce flowing over the wings.. because obviously the wings arnt facing the direction of travel any more, meaning that once u get the the point where enough downforce is lost, its really hard to catch, and will eventually hit a point of no return when it will go straight around

    Maybe your used to street cars, that have heaps of steering lock, making them fairly progressive, but if u go past that lock, then it is near impossible to catch..
    *i know some people can do it with throttle but its pretty hard to do*

    Also Slick tires as people have posted 1000000000 times have alot of grip normally.. but lose huge amounts the second they go sideways.. and have a very sharp drop off point, also tire pressures vs a normal car get different reactions etc making a steeper drop off and a less progressive feel when the car spins

    I think there is room to improve on the force feedback compared to iracing, and compared to what i've felt in real life, but its no to bad right now..

    Also people comparing karting to racing, karts due to the size, wheel base etc, are very easy to slide at small degrees compared to a real car.. but even in a kart, get it sideways enough and u will hit a point of no return and there is no way to stop it spinning, no matter what u do..
     
  15. Doc_

    Doc_ Registered

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    There is nothing wrong with the rear end.
     
  16. emilblixt

    emilblixt Registered

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    You make a persuasive argument...
     
  17. emilblixt

    emilblixt Registered

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    You nailed it,
    in nkPro for example you can let your instincts and reflexes guide you the first 95 % and THEN start mastering the driving.
    Everytime I try iRacing it seems I have to start from scratch.
     
  18. slowpace

    slowpace Registered

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    Okay after thinking it trough and going back to rf1 to drive some roadcars with decent physics. I have to take back what I said. I can easily catch the slides in those aswell so retract, delete, ignore my mumblings. It is a matter of road tires vs racing tires.

    But there is definetly a difference between the feel of rf2 and nkp. NetKar Pro just feels more "natural", more real to me. Easier to just jump right in and drive, but difficult to be fast. Maybe its a problem with the forcefeedback not being responsive enough. Have to tweak my FFB settings to see if I can improve it.
     
  19. Frosty888

    Frosty888 Registered

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    love this game and remba its a beta. the rear of the car the way it all handles as its a beta is great when all the other stuff come later on it will be harder to drive them again more life like. as the beta is now the cars and game handle fine and look fantastic on my gtx 560 ti love it. as in real life u dont scream into cornners because u no u could hurt ya self if u sit back and watch others drive on the servers they are still locking brakes up , wich in fact is the slow way around any kind of racing or driving a car in sim or real life so sayying that with flat spotts turned of in this beta stage this will only get better and hope isi dont go the arcade way. Sim Racing for me has changed all again thank u ISI GTREAT PRODUCT AND ITS JUST A EARLY BETA TASTE CHEERS
     
  20. TonyRickard

    TonyRickard Registered

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    I have never had any issue jumping from real car to sim - even back when sims were very rudimentary in the early nineties. The simple fact is the sensations of driving a real car and a static simulation are even now so different that we learn to relate the differences and feel like we are driving a moving vehicle.

    Sim to sim is different because the methods of conveying the sensations are different - as computing power and developer knowledge increases but also some degree of interpretation at how to best translate seat of the pants feel to a static environment.
     

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