rear end feels unnatural

Discussion in 'Technical Archives' started by vilivili, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. Kevin Brigden

    Kevin Brigden Registered

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    Would be nice to hear from someone who has ACUALLY driven a Megane or FR3.5 as well... because until then this is ALL pie in the sky.
     
  2. brabham67

    brabham67 Registered

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    This. With all the various machines running this beta, and the different experiences that users are having, we need that, or some telemetry to make accurate assessments of the tire model(know to be incomplete) and the physics.
     
  3. blakboks

    blakboks Registered

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    Ok, so 'crash' was the wrong word to use--I should have said "taking even a little bit of curbing really puts the car out of shape". No, I'm not going into the walls all of the time when taking the curbing, nor am I even spinning around all of the time. But, it usually causes a significant loss of time.

    Way to argue the person instead of his arguments, though--that's shows desperation. Especially when I was actually somewhat agreeing with you that the FR3.5 feels tail-happy.
     
  4. emilblixt

    emilblixt Registered

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    You cant seriously say that RBR on tarmac feels like nkpro!!!? I have and love them both they are my go to sims but tarmac in RBR is THE major weakness of that title. To grippy and dull. I do however agree that when coming from a day on a real track, nkPro feel most "at home", you drive the way your insticts tell you to and it responds accordingly. This is clearly not nkPro and I agree that the FFB and tire model need some work done before the end.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2012
  5. emilblixt

    emilblixt Registered

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    Sigh.. Here we go again, only those who have actually won F1 WCP is allowed to have an opinion!!
    NO! All cars obey the same laws of physics and anyone who has raced even just a little can tell you how a car behaves on the edge with weight transfer and grip. Also, the hardest to drive sims are rarely the best.
     
  6. hiohaa

    hiohaa Registered

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    exactly - and you only have to watch onboard vids on youtube to see what different kinds of cars are like on the limit and over it, and how easy they are to pull back (as i've experienced first hand). you can also use this thing called common sense.

    whoever said RBR is too grippy on tarmac....welcome to the real world. thats how it should be, and is. and i duno how you can call rbr too grippy.....bare in mind youre only doing between 20-70mph most of the time....

    these sims are much tougher to drive than the real thing, because you have a complete lack of feel. jump into the real thing after playing a sim, and you are flooded with information, which makes driving the thing 10 times easier.

    and yes of course, its not just the steering wheel forces, but games can certainly going a long way to mimicking the forces, and conveying other pieces of information through the wheel that wouldn't normally be conveyed - maybe vibration when you lock up etc...

    it has been noted that real drivers comment on how the games dont seem to have as much grip as real life. there is a video on youtube of some german racing driver driving the new M5 at nurburgring, then driving the M5 in game in GT5, and saying how the car in game had less grip. And this is GT5....the simplest of simracing games (if it can even be called a sim).

    there is this massive delusion in the simracing community that racing cars are so difficult to drive, and that only people who have driven the real thing can possibly give a real account. I call it The Sim Delusion.
    well im gona prove it wrong with my report this weekend, and backing it up to a video of me actually driving. before i post it, all i will say to anyone who brings out those common arguments - you're wrong.

    anyway, all this is getting off topic - the FFB, certainly on the Formula renault car - is a complete mess.
    And the complete lack of grip at low speed, especially when powering out a corner - is still there, straight from RF1. The FFB just feels like RF1 + realfeel.
    And the handling just feels like RF1 except this time they've allowed a bit more rear slip angle.

    Yes you can feel the weight transfer...but you could feel that fine in Rf1 too.
     
  7. Kevin Brigden

    Kevin Brigden Registered

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    Says who? You? Well I'm sorry emilblixt, but I've not an inkling who you are. Nor does anyone else for that matter. So without some sort of tangible real world racing pedigree your assertions are entirely without weight as anyone are anyone else's for that matter... my own included. In much the same way as any other forum user who claims to have an insight into how a simulation should or should not attempt to convey the tremendously intricate and complex matter of race car vehicle dynamics through a $300 piece of plastic is making almost entirely spurious claims.

    Until we have virtual reality glasses, with inner ear simulators, dynamic wind machines, a rolling road and someone throwing debris at us any claims that a simulator is realistic or not based purely on "what feels right" are completely and utterly pie in the sky.
     
  8. Rubber

    Rubber Registered

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    hiohaa

    you can wrote for me because your think is perfect aligned with mine...
    I hope that some ISI get attention over this

    :cool:
     
  9. E.Neytman

    E.Neytman Registered

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    Problem of rear end?? That`s the problem of your LEGS and HANDS. And just drive when track is rubbered to judje.

    The physics, the tires, the feel of the car and the FFB are just AWESOME, this is as close to reality as it can be.

    btw - i`m a real karting racer. I`ve been on many servers and the level of driving is poor. MB 4-5 cars arre realy fast and they are not complaining about anything.

    The real focuses are the performance, collision and FFB centering fore. Also it would be nice to see what tires are used by other cars.

    Thx and keep going. This is just another planet and i can undestand why most of people are complaining - the simply know nothing about real changing conditions on the track because before it was not presented in the sims.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2012
  10. vilivili

    vilivili Registered

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    yes it's beta but has ISI told the tire model isn't complete? if so then there's some hope left
     
  11. Jan1

    Jan1 Registered

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    I have this same problem. I don't know weather it is about controller settings or wheel (I'm using Driving Force GT), but it's not about my driving. In Megane I can catch sliding pretty well but with Formula Renault its just impossible. I believe physics are great and they work well for most people but I and some others really have a problem.

    In Formula Renault I can't catch any sliding and it's not about throttle control, I even tried with maximum TC and it had no help. There is a point when speed reaches certain point and correcting a drift becomes impossible, car just slides on the wall. It actually feels like I would have a puncture in rear tyre or I would suddenly lose rear wing, it's not normal. And I have driven other sims too. In rF1 for example I had no problem with handling.

    As I said earlier I'm sure that most peoples doesn't have this problem, it's so big for me that if everyone would have it they would also complain about it. Might be about wheel settings or wheel compatibility, I don't know. I could try making a video about the problem in weekend if I can.
     
  12. mikeyk1985

    mikeyk1985 Registered

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    If I can catch and correct all the cars in the beta with a non forcefeedback wheel then there cannot be that much wrong with the tyre model.
     
  13. vilivili

    vilivili Registered

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    some people think there cannot be that much wrong with the tyre model if they can catch the tail.

    wouldn't this thread be "I can't catch the tail" if that's the problem??
     
  14. emilblixt

    emilblixt Registered

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    Anyone who´s ever driven a car is entitled to an opinion, I have raced a little in real life, not much but I´ve tried several different cars and I cant remeber once thinking; wow this feels nothing like the other cars! As someone stated above, racing in real life is not hard. Winning is hard, but anyone can learn the basics of racing line, braking, weight transfer etc. And there are sims that many people praise for beeing close to the real thing; nkPro and RBR for example. The best part is, because there are only one set of real life physics (thank you Newton) most folks will give you similar feedback on a sim like this, except the ones that dont like constructive critisism, who allready decided this is the best sim ever, and therefore hinder its progress.
     
  15. E.Neytman

    E.Neytman Registered

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    This is not a problem to catch a slide. Formula cars are simply difficult to catch from a massive slide because of the aero.
     
  16. brabham67

    brabham67 Registered

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    I agree. However so far all we have is odious comparisons to other titles, "It feels wrong", and "Please fix it." Hardly constructive. A great example of constructive feedback is what happened at iRacing when the much hyped New Tire Model was released. The forums exploded. And in the mix of "this is teh suk", and "this is da bomb" there were guys who grabbed the telemetry tools available in iRacing and put their complaints on paper, and even got the head developer to agree that it wasn't quite right. That's what we need. Hard Data, not feelings, one way or the other. It will only help the development of rF2. :D


    For what its worth, I'm going to start digging deep into the F3.5 tonight, and see what driving tons of laps tell me. If I get anything useful out of it, I'll report back here, and hopefully with something to back my experience up.
     
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  17. Tiger

    Tiger Registered

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    same here!
    the 60's are touchy though!
     
  18. kmw

    kmw Registered

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    So far, I must agree. I've been testing the F3.5 for several hours, and cannot get a consistent setup, the back end lets go on exit of turns too easily. I am not yet certain enough to blame the physics, and have been trying to determine if it is caused by the setup of my DFGT wheel, or by the car setup, or a combination of the two; and there's no denying that others seem to be happy enough with the handling, and are lapping several seconds faster than me. I am not the quickest driver, but I'm not normally that bad! I seem to be having to temper the throttle far too much to get out of the turns.
     
  19. kmw

    kmw Registered

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    This is my exact problem too, and with the same wheel, so I am thinking we need to take another look at the wheel setup.
    Does anyone else with a DFGT have this issue, or is anyone getting quick lap times with it? Please let us know either way.
     
  20. patryksok.

    patryksok. Registered

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    I dont have any issue with my wheel. And I can set Top3 time in qual with ~25people on server with DFGT.
     

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