RealRoad textures and UV channels?

Discussion in 'Track Modding' started by R Soul, Feb 6, 2017.

  1. R Soul

    R Soul Registered

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    I've been having a go at setting up my first RealRoad material but I'm confused about which textures belong to which UV map.

    This file (page 5) has a list of textures and which UV channel they use:
    texturemaps.jpg

    I can accept that only 3 UV maps are used, but when I load an example of an ISI in 3dSimed I see this:
    uvmaps.jpg

    Using 0 indexing to match the screenshot, this is how I interpret it:
    Channel 0: Diffuse and Normal maps
    Channel 3: Groove and Reflection maps.

    Can anyone explain the point of channels 1 and 2 being identical and why the ISI document only mentions 3 channels?
     
  2. Coutie

    Coutie Moderator

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  3. Nibiru

    Nibiru Registered

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    Afaik you cant really set up a proper realroad in simmed really needs to be done in 3dsmax so you can spline map the race groove to the fast path. In 3dsimed
    0=first texture
    1=2nd
    2=3rd
    3=4th
    But no channels for the 5th and 6th and 7th textures mapping
     
  4. Drathuu

    Drathuu Registered

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    There is no 5th 6th and 7th texture mappings.

    1 - Diffuse Map (In simed first texture slot) is your diffuse texture.. This uses the mapping coordinates found in Channel 1 UVMAP
    2 - MULTI-MAP - This is the mixmap (stones etc) on the road).. this uses channel 2 UVMAP.

    This way the road can be mapped and repeated at long intervals (5-10 metres).. ie the grey and variations of grey
    However the multi map (The stones), can be much smaller in scale (repeating every 1 metre) to give the detail effect when you zoom in

    3 - Normal Map - This is the roads normal map - and uses the same mapping as your diffuse texture (as it is channel 1 UVMAP).. Therefore your normal map is showing the undulations in your first texture. Eg bumps and cracks drawn on Diffuse map can have normals as its mapped identically (Same scaling)

    4 - Race Groove - The track buildup texture - Uses its own mapping.. why ?? (The diffuse map follows the road) squard and perfectly.. However the racing line does not.. It cuts apex's etc.. so it needs its own mapping coordinates so it draws itself differently.

    5 - Spec Map - (white sparkels and highlights) - This uses Mapping from channel 2.. (same as your Mixmap Multimap).. the stones.. so the spec map should be the highlighting of your stones in the road surface.

    6 - Marbles - the rubber buildup also uses channel 2's mapping.. as it repeats in small areas (whatever you set) so the small rubber particles buildup

    7- Does not matter.. The live reflection mapper updates all this...

    So you will only have 3 Channel Mappings.. You set these in your 3dsoftware when uvmapping.. (3d simed cannot map these).. so all you can do is scale them.. (Screenshot below).. play with the scale can give you some decent basic references however if its an rf1 track, it would only have had 1 channel mapped, therefore the Specular and stone effects will look crap on the track.. and the realroad buildup will be aligned with the road and not the racing line..(The mapping is coded into the objects GMT).. hence you need to create a completely new GMT to embed different or additional channel mapping. (simed can just edit the scaling, or swap them around).

    cap1.JPG cap2.jpg

    However .. Below is a video that will explain the different mapping (How a uvmap is made and assigned).. so the Object has more than 1 texture mapping. It may help you understand how it works and why simed cant do it.

     

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  5. Drathuu

    Drathuu Registered

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    On your other query - 3d simed channel numbering is 1 earlier.

    Channel 0 in simed - Is 3dsmax Uvmapping channel 1 (And isi channel 1)
    EG - Diffuse and normal maps
    Channel 1 in simed - is uvmapping channel 2
    so it is Multimap, spec map and marbles.
    Channel 2 in simed - is channel 3 in the documenation
    So racegroove and reflection map

    For the polygon you have selected, the mapping direction, scale and coordinates are the same (the multimap, spec map and marbles) is identical to the racegroove - on that polygon they are same scale and dimension - You may find on corners there is discrepacnices as the racegroove maybe differnet angles to the multi spec map.

    Each polygon contains mapping data (3 channels for the realroad gmt objects), as it draws (overlays each texture for that polygon), it uses the mapping assigned.. hence you can have realroad direction different to road texture etc.

    The documentation was written for 3dsmax.. the numbering in simed is just 1 less..
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  6. Drathuu

    Drathuu Registered

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    Also simeds Channel 3 (max channel 4) goes unused with this shader (as realroad) doesnt use a 4th uvchannel map.. however i suspect its there for other games that have more detailed shaders (And or) there maybe other shaders (the new ground shader that uses it).
     
  7. Nibiru

    Nibiru Registered

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    I believe 3dsimed doesn't recognise the channels like 3dsmax does. Just because in max we only use 3 channels and Automatically each channel is mapped depending on which channel we use with what ever texture slot. 3dsimed uses a separate channel for each texture slot.
    Do a test change the difuse and the bump will not match even though it should be mapped to the same channel. You need to do it to the bump channel as well. That is why you need a 5th 6th and 7th channel in 3dsimed.

    Id like to be told Im wrong this is how you do it but anyway I get good results with max and you can spline map.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  8. Drathuu

    Drathuu Registered

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    Very basic picture - Each Polygon on a track. has mapping (it can have mutliple mapping) the shader then mixes these and draws each texture dependant on the mapping assigned.

    TRACK_MAIN.jpg
     
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  9. Nibiru

    Nibiru Registered

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    ok another test get a simple object with only T1 mapping. Bring it into 3dsimed change the shader to bump spec T1 and load your textures. The new texture don't have any mapping. Check the scale and it will be 0. I haven't found a way in 3dsimed to set the texture channel. It get automatically assigned as channel 0-3 depending on the amount of texture required for the shader.
     
  10. Nibiru

    Nibiru Registered

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    Now do the opposite Take the simple object and make it a bump spec T1 n 3dmax assign the textures all on channel 1 and export and load into 3dsimed and go check the channels and scale you will see that the spec and bump are assigned to channel 1 and 2 and have there own texture scale which is now 1. But you can scale each texture separately.
     
  11. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    Can someone post a screenshot of how this mapping looks in the 3dsmax / Maya material editor?
     
  12. Gijs van Elderen

    Gijs van Elderen Member

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    This is how a hardware shader works: In gJED and in a modding program if you use a hardware shader (shaderfx, cgfx, hlsl,...) UV mappings are predefined in the shader.
    (predefined by ourself, If you made the shader yourself)
     
  13. R Soul

    R Soul Registered

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    I appreciate all the advice. I should point out I know how to translate a 1 indexed list to a 0 indexed list, and most other aspects of RealRoad. It's just the discrepancy between ISI saying '3 UV maps' and 3dSimed showing 4, with two of them being identical.

    Oh and I don't use 3dsMax, I use Blender, which doesn't support spline mapping. A while ago I came up with an alternative.

    I decided to stop thinking, which was getting me frustrated, and just accept what 3dSimed was showing me. I set up 4 UV maps in Blender. 1 = Basic road mapping, 2 and 3 = highly repetitive, 4 = groove.

    Here's an example of the groove mapping in Blender:
    [​IMG]
    I put a blue line down the middle so I could see it working. The nature of RR means that perfection isn't as important as it is for ordinary textures.

    Here it is in game after I set up the track's material and drove a few laps:
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    How to set up materials (in 3dsmax) so they can get picked up in gJED? I tried importing an existing track FBX (exported from 3dsimed) but it lost most of the mapping apart from Channel 1.
     
  15. Nibiru

    Nibiru Registered

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    Follow the track PDF and I think it shows you in the video above
    Export it from max in FBX format and go straight to gJed. I use 3dsimed as my choice of quick viewing to find issues. . and I don't often use gJED as I get faster and easier results with 3dsimed, and I dont use simmed for exporting I leave that up to 3dmax otherwise you do loose stuff.
     
  16. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    I am trying to create content from scratch so I need it mapped correctly in max before it gets to gJED (3dsimed just doesn't do that). I don't have access to the max version compatible with the ISI plugins.
     
  17. Nibiru

    Nibiru Registered

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    Yeah but you should still be able to export to FBX from max? and load that into gJED and skip 3dsimed
     
  18. Drathuu

    Drathuu Registered

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    wodee, im using max 2016, export to fbx into gjed to gmt.. in about 2 mins.. Do my mapping and check it in devmod quick once you set it up. I can run a video of my process if it helps.
     
  19. Drathuu

    Drathuu Registered

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    If your editing racegroove mapping in max - applying your UVWmapping (xforms etc) ensure you are applying them to mapping channel 3 - Pic 1. ..Note the 2nd image i was playing with channel 1 -Difuse mapping, however if you were doing racegroove it would be channel 3.

    A tip is to change the polygons (highlight them all) and alter them to your material texture (racegroove) first, and make it visible (displaying material).. then edit it.. (but note: if the number is showing 1 or 2, even though in max your looking at the correct texture you are editing the incorect channel.

    Capture1.JPG Capture.JPG
     
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  20. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    Yup... but the mapping would need to be done before touching gJED. I thought that you could apply all the images in the material editor and when loading into gJED it would pick them all up as the real road shader.

    Videos are always a little easier for me to learn from. It's harder and harder for things to stay in my brain nowadays! :)
     

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