Realistic Tyre Walls

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Cobbs, Apr 22, 2011.

  1. Cobbs

    Cobbs Registered

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    Pretty self-explanatory, really!

    There's nothing more off-putting than when you get it wrong and put the car in the tyre wall, and simply bounce off it and carry on as if nothing's happened.

    I can't imagine that it would be amazingly hard to input, but it would make a big difference to the feeling of realism in the game!
     
  2. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

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    For me, that sounds your mod has set unrealistic (low) damage or you just should define different damper and spring for the tyre wall. But that's already in rF 1 ;)
     
  3. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Most software (even commercial, not just mods) will probably be set unrealisticly forgiving I've noticed. But they are probably trying to not have an impossible experience for the player more than anything else. Or, they are trying to make up for failings in the damage engine which would maybe look bad if it was supposed to be realistic. It's probably more difficult to have a totally realistic damage physics engine than it is to have a realistic driving physics engine. There's a reason why they still crash test real cars into things to test them rather than relying on simulation. The amount of forces and calculations would be astronomical.

    As said above though, if you want to be out when you hit something, then you need to set the damage to brutal mode in the mod. See what happens.
     
  4. ZeosPantera

    ZeosPantera Registered

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    Well iRacing has had the best tire-wall physics I had seen in any game. You could tell they are soft and bouncy. In rF1 I fear anything that resembles a barrier like hay bales and tire walls (sometimes plants and bushes{F' U African Raid!}) as they are all made of cast reinforced concrete permanently affixed to the ground.
     
  5. Guineapiggy

    Guineapiggy Registered

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    To be fair people get the wrong idea about hay bales, they're not like falling in to a soft straw bed, one compacted hay bale can weigh up to 130lbs. Tyre barriers are noticeably softer than hay. Those giant rolls you see in fields typically weigh near to a full metric tonne.
     
  6. ZeosPantera

    ZeosPantera Registered

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    They should still move and damage the aero of the car. VIR is an instant spinning out death with just a scrape on the concrete haybales. The Tirewall on Bathurst has also been the cause of my demise on multiple occasions in serious races from what can only be described as a brush against them.

    Video you ask? My first Youtube upload. Instant engine failure. From a brush into the tire wall.

     
  7. Guineapiggy

    Guineapiggy Registered

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    I do agree with you on RF's collision engine and that most others are on the plastic side of elastic too. Whilst I can understand it being low-priority for ISI the sim that will win my heart first is the one that simulates a great driving experience with the full bending, shredding, crushing and ripping aspects of wheel to wheel duels. (Well, I can dream...)

    It's largely for the sake of pedantry that I mention that a small tap can feasibly wreck a car as with high-torque and/or lightweight cars it's not entirely unheard of for them to snap their drive-shaft just accelerating too hard as they drop from the pit-jacks. (This happened notably to Kimi Rakkonen at Imola 2005, costing him a certain win.) Hell, many cars have broken their oil-lines driving over innocuous seeming kerbs too...
     
  8. still_bacon

    still_bacon Registered

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    I spose the thing most people would like would be a compression or weight factor to the objects of some description to reduce the damage like in real life. This is an example of my thoughts:

    Concrete = 100% solid, immovable and weight 1000kg/M. Hit it and you are shagged, and the damage is replicated accordingly at 100% of deformation etc
    Tyre wall = 50% solid, immovable and weighs 100kg/M. Hit it and your damage is reduced to 10% of the planned deformation for a brushing event (based on the weight), and by 50% for an impact if the car would have breached the wall barrier in the impact (eg head on into the tyre wall at bathurst).

    Then there could be standalone barriers. In this situation, the following scenario might work:

    Roadside advertising = 100% solid, movable and weighs 5kg/M. Hit it hard, and it will not damage the car too much as it is too light, but will be moved away.
    Tyre wall in a runoff area = 50% solid, movable and weighs 100kg/M. Hit it, and the wall moves based on the weight of the item (Length x mass), and the car damage is reduced in comparison to a fixed tyre wall by the movability. eg, the movability could reduce damage by 50%. This would make a head on impact worth 25% (against a head on impact above as 50%).

    The tyre wall reduction concept could also be useful for those flexible barriers I have seen on some NASCAR on tracks.

    Hope this is clear?
     
  9. elwood

    elwood Registered

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    TecPro Company did some flexible barriers (Monza, AbuDhabi, ROC, karting...).
    For classical barriers i agree with still_bacon, in some way we need something better without wasting too much cpu.
    One tip is for temporary barriers, those ones placed to avoid shortcutting by drivers, will be fine to reset them to their original position after a contact, more or less like LFS.
    We need to control mass, friction and damping of an obstacle. I'm doing a gimkana and i've placed a lot of different barriers, tires, rubber poles, cones, tecpro layers Superdefenders and so on. I'm struggling because some of them are not 'punitive' in real life, except first line of protections (walls, guardrails) and obviously tirewalls, that are usually tightened with ropes and even with a conveyor belt, are hard enough to damage the vehicle then dampen an impact.
    We don't need huge steps in this field, but something a bit more flexible. :cool:
    Cheers ISIs
     
  10. sriltz123

    sriltz123 Registered

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    To be fair people get the wrong idea about hay bales, they're not like falling in to a soft straw bed, one compacted hay bale can weigh up to 130lbs. Tyre barriers are noticeably softer than hay. Those giant rolls you see in fields typically weigh near to a full metric tonne.
     

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