Real-Life Road-Cars Don't Drive As "Sim-Cade" As Some Of You Want To Believe

It's certainly not rF2.

It is poetic though...but lets hope we can get a couple more pages in this thread before the inevitable sim vs sim bash fest starts up...XD

 

The article doesn't mean nothing....
We will waiting for the rf2 (rip)conversion... on the while you can play it in AC with your joypad....pc or future ps4 version as you wish!!
Modders could rip the entire AC contents including the LS tracks...to the RF2 platform and everythings would drive better..would feel ALIVE!... with better physics...better handling. ..better ffb....better immersion...with complex tire deformation, real road and weather condition system..
No matter if they would look a little bit worse..
have you ever tried Ferrari 458 challenge (FVA...porting) in RF2 drives much much much better than the original!
Have you tried the vette from egt mod in AC It's like in RF2? same feeling? same ffb? Absolutely Not!
And the historical f1 in AC can you compare it with the RF2 version!! Just toy feeling....

Inviato dal mio SM-T705 utilizzando Tapatalk

 

Have you ever driven a shifter kart on track?
Just asking.

 

No thanks, I would rather mods built around rF2 thank you very much.

 

rFactor 2 is not a magic box where you throw a car and instantly it behaves like the real thing, there are literally hundreds of parameters that are extremely important and need to be tuned by the modder.

The F458 is quite average, and the EGT's Vette (and all their GTs) are clearly worse than ISI's GTs in comparison, way less dynamic.

 

Nope. All you need is good food. You'd be surprised how docile they become when fed. Not monsters at all. Just hungry.

 

To echo Paul's sentiments, you only have the visual(*), sound(**), and the FFB in a sim. "Back in the day", before FFB, you only had visual and sound. That's why framerate and image quality are highly important. In real life, framerate doesn't happen and there aren't 512 discrete steps in the steering and the car doesn't travel 0.3m between sensory perceptions. Fortunately our brains are good at blending these things together to make it seem more continuous.

(*) Visual feedback includes the yaw and whether the direction of travel is along the intended path. If you have no frame of reference from real life, value judgements have to lean towards the sim because that's all you know. Steering wheel range plays a large role here, too... if the real life car has 3 turns lock-to-lock (1080 degrees) and your sim has a 540 degree steering wheel, your arms aren't going through the same motions as in real life!

(**) Sound is a miasma, but mostly your own revs and some mechanical support noises (clunks & rubs from suspension, power steering & alternator whine, gearbox, etc.). Very rare to hear the tires over your own engine. Depending on your race series and hearing protection, usually tough to hear the other cars though easier than tires. Total dynamic range is not going to be there in a sim.

 

lol

 

Too many coulds and probablys. I'll just agree to disagree.

I will say that rF2 is the best we have to mimic real life, but it is nothing like real life.

Want to know the best thing I have gotten out of rF2? Memorizing tracks for when I ride them in real life.

 

Wasn't there that datalog from an F3 team or something in rF1? They overlayed the sim and the real traces over each other and the stats they were getting back were 98% a match. Their view was the driver obviously pushes a teeny tiny bit further in sim, as he has no expensive car or his own life to worry about XD

The car behavior certainly doesn't match up in peoples minds when they go do a track day, or think they are actually pushing a car fast, whereas they are actually not nearing the limit where things get "sketchy". So I think that's where people get the whole "WTF, why is the car so slidy in the sim, should be locked down solid" feelings. They aren't sitting on that edge of grip and trying to feed the power in and keep the line and grip, but they are going faster than they probably ever have before, so it feels like balls to the wall stuff. Way more g force than usual in a car, tunnel vision, the noise, etc. All combining to make it seems as they are driving like Senna lol. And ontop of that in terms of feeling all under control is the many different sensations and feelings you get from the car, helping you to judge what you are doing.

The thing to always do in a sim is take a trace of your speeds around the track and actually look at them while thinking about your real life experiences. I always find it quite astonishing. "Oh, I just went round that sweeper at 160kph...in a road car". The other thing you tend not to feel is how fast you are actually accelerating sometimes. I remember seeing people having trouble with the Howston G6 580HP version, wheelspin out of corner, always feeling very tail happy and not being very pleased with the way it was driving (barring the fact it is an old prototype race car). The thing piles speed on so bloody fast though, so you are giving it 1/3 throttle and the thing is already leaping away ridiculously fast for those old tyres and suspension. Yet again, bring your real life experiences into it and think about how quickly it piles up to over 250 odd kph.

 

And I would take you more seriously, if you have driven a manufacturer's street car in this game, and driven the real one to it's limits. Just because I have a G25 and you have a T500RS doesn't mean I am less informed. There is more to it than a technical aspect.

I knew I would have to explain it...I guess I am thinking outside the box, literally.

In real life...when you are at the edge of grip, what notifies you that you are sliding? the wheel? In real life it's your butt, and the feeling of lateral g forces. When you are braking at 100% in the game, does your head slam forward and give you whiplash? It does in real life! When you are driving a car in real life to it's max, for a long period of time (let's say, an hour), your focus leaves you, your whole body aches, you get the fear of wrecking, and you lose weight from sweating. I didn't even mention things like seatbelts cutting off your breath, dehydration, or lateral G's blacking you out. What about accelerated heart rate? In real life, when go above 130mph, you begin getting tunnel vision. Do you in the game? Nope! You are in the comfort of your room, with socks on, and a beer (hey, no drinking and driving!).

You are only thinking of how you think it would drive...which is technically. Like "should it be loose coming out of a corner, or will it brake in every corner, every time, the same way". WRONG! It will not. You can boil your brake fluid, and overheat your brake pads, causing not only brake fade, but brake failure. Because moisture can get in the lines if you let it sit. In this game, you will NEVER get moisture buildup in your brake lines. Overheat your tires, and your brakes, and you WILL be driving that car much differently than in this game, if it had hot tires and brakes.


Finally, there is just no sense of feeling. I am not picking on rF2, either. With ALL sims, simcades, arcades, ANY driving software. Because guess what. I have beaten Dale Earnhart, Jr in a "sim", but could I on a real track? Not even close. Don't get me wrong, I love rF2, but there is NOTHING that comes close to the real thing...not CLOSE! Minibull said it best above.

 

When simulators will be able to deliver these stimulations to our brains (and bodies) we won't call them simulators anymore, but "alternate reality", in the meanwhile we have to do with what we have, and while our simulators are not able to buzz our brain like reality, they are becoming quite good at their job, that is to make a virtual car move on a virtual track in a realistic way.

 

To say that absolutely nothing from an advanced simulator carries over into real life is just nonsensical. The discussion is becoming quite absurd, like it almost always does when it comes to these things.

 

Actually mine does... not the physical driving, but the ability to sort out the fastest line, the focus over multiple laps, and the feeling of "getting the power just a little earlier next turn"... the way you envolve a perfect lap, they are to me the same.

 

Exactly, couldn't have said it better my self. When you're on the edge, even roadcars can become extremely sensitive to small differences in your throttle/brake/steering inputs which can cause slides (and even loss of control). Some people think roadcars don't have this ability and only racecars do since they so often see racecars pushed to this amount on TV yet hardly see roadcars pushed this hard, but any car can behave like this once on/near the edge where things can get real sketchy, sensitive, and unstable. That's all I was trying to point out in this thread. then from there the thread broke off into a few tangents, lol.

Very true...

Eg. 1) I was going down my side-street the other day and went around a round-about at around 50, km/h; I had some front tyre slip on the exit when the 50% or so, throttle I applied, combined with how much steering lock I had (not much), was slightly too much for the front tyres to handle. I would have understeered into the sidewalk if i hadn't done a quick lift. Now go into the sim and drive at 50 km/h, and get some understeer at only 50% throttle with only 125 HP and decent roadcar tyres, most people would probably start blaming the tyre model, "icy" handling, "slippery and hard doesn't mean realistic" and on and on. 50 Km/h looks and feels like parking-lot speed in a sim, and therefore any slips or slides at those speeds will feel unnatural and wrong to the player, even though they may actually be correct.

Eg. 2) I've actually almost gotten a wild amount of corner-entry oversteer in my dad's stock (except better and wider tyres, and possibly wheels) 2006 base model Toyota Carolla. I was flying through an on-ramp to get onto a freeway, I mean really pushing, even when my mind and nerves where telling me "that's enough". The moment the curve got a little sharper and I added a touch more steering lock, the rear started to go, it happened suddenly but not in a snapping way. I instantly unwinded the wheel just a few degrees (literally just a few) and added more throttle to stabalize the rear - I probably went from 20% or so throttle, to around 50% and prevented the slide from becoming anything more. I prevented what would have been a huge slide, at high speed (130-150 km/h is high in real-life, even though its's a joke in sims), total destruction of my car, and possible injury or death to me and possibly others. This amount of sensitivity and possible instability and sliding, in a sim, with this type of car, with these types of speeds, would be deemed "icy" and unrealistic by many just because their "Toyota Corollas don't turn into death traps when they go through a highway onramp", little do they know that their "slidey and hard doesn't equal realistic" complaints are actually a cry for even more unrealistic vehicle behavior.


I'm not saying rF2, or any sim, is perfect; in-fact, I can sometimes be quite vocal regarding my thoughts on the physics of certain sims, but this thread was just to point out how on the edge/sketchy, and driver-input-to-vehicle-behaviour sensitive even roadcars can become since some people tend to have this idea that roadcars can't act this way.

P.S. This is off-topic but since people have been talking about FFB, I'll add my "2 cents". If I had to wait for my steering wheel to tell me anything about the car, especially in my 2nd example above, I would probably be dead right now. The super tiny, early, and minute feelings were all from the car around/underneath me + g-forces + inner ear. The steering wheel sensations come way too late relative to these other feelings (not to mention - unless in a very good sports car or racecar - extremely vague). If I used the steering wheel as a means of feeling the car, I'd be dead.

 

It is soon Christmas, go and buy you a gift.

and you feel it in you ass mate

 

I have nothing more to add to this topic as some have already made up their mind.
I will leave you with this though, I spent just under four years rallying an 1800 Toyota mostly on very loose terrain.
That surface especially, offers very little resistance to the steered wheels and rack...giving road 'jolt' feel mostly when they 'hook up'. Asphalt is a different story.
Inner ear, visual cues and your seat of the pant is what directs what you do next...despite what is published in the last four pages.
I'm a mid-pack simracer at best...the one thing I do have is track experience...and lots of it.
I have nothing more to add. It's time for me to move on to another topic.

 

Don`t get me wrong mate, I have lot of track experience too, rFactor2 is still "constantly evolving product" and it has still lot of cons, what I meant with my reply is that good simgear may help to get bit closer real racing

 

I want just say this thing some real drivers (not those Isi pay to test their sim lol )have tried Rf and Rf2 they are totaly disapointed about it ...both sims are very long to be real .....so you can stay here to say Rf2 is the best sim of the world but if you've never been on a track driving a real Race Car you can't compare the real one and sim

 

...and where have these real drivers posted their feelings exactly?