Real-Life Road-Cars Don't Drive As "Sim-Cade" As Some Of You Want To Believe

It was just a wind-up mate you know that I think hehehe

Of course I agree with you.


I was being analytically sarcastic .............. like say a rookie with $3000 setup vs a Pro with a well worn G27.


Won't help the rookie ................. hehehe

 

I think more people need to try the G6 on Spa.


Then get back to me about AC and pCARS feelin'

looool



Doh that would have made a good clip for the " rF2 no words needed " thread. p

 

That is never how any of your threads come across, FYI.

 

G25-27 is fine wheels you not faster with T500Rs CSW etc. it is just to get some cheap rubber or spring and make brake mod and use muscle memory when braking.

 

A. Look how little steering they need to get the car turned into the corner - you can really tell a driver is nearing the limits when you see this because - like in sims - you need need much steering angle/lock to turn in when near the limits because the car gets unstable/lively/"free" when near the limits which
[64R] you meant you don't need much steering angle didn't you?

B. Look at the oversteer that can so easily happen on corner-entry, NOT on the exit where we all know that you can just floor the throttle, but on corner turn-in

C. Look at the oversteer that he can so easily get mid corner right near the apex (a second or so before exiting) while NOT having any (or just a very minute amount) of throttle applied

It's all pretty simple. A tyre can only provide a certain amount of grip. The four tyres on a car can only provide a certain amount of grip. For your three cases above, it's completely normal that once you approach the limit of the maximum grip the car starts to move around, once you are at that point any small driver input can have a large change in the yaw of the car. With only a finite amount of grip, at any point of the braking, cornering and exit phases you are simply exchanging longitudinal grip for lateral grip then back to longitudinal grip again, its the same in a road car or a race car.

To see this in action log some data and create a combined g channel, this is probably the easiest way to see where you are compared to the limits of the car. For what it's worth, we use RF2 mainly with the Clio and Honda so our real world drivers get used to making the car loose grip (oversteer) on corner entry, very slightly loose mid corner at the apex and neutral on the corner exit. When we analyse the data we are happy that RF2 is pretty close to our real world race cars. For sure the grip on the grass is a big issue (there is no grip) but on a reasonably rubbered race surface we are happy that RF2 provides the best feedback and simulation for our team compared to the other sim products (and we constantly compare them all). For sure it's not perfect, I would love to have some of the graphic features of the other titles, but in terms of FFB and physics we use RF2 because it is the closest we have to real world.

Of course the main issue the drivers complain about is lack of g forces, but the closest you can come to replicating the driver feel in a sim is by having a 1:1 yaw motion (yes this applies even if you are a big F1 team). We also spend a fair amount of time in FWD road cars doing other driver training, and all the above still applies, we actually recommend RF2 (specifically the Clio and Abarth) to new drivers if they want to practice the technique before they get to the track.

I'm convinced that almost everybody who complains that the cars are too sim-cade would change their mind if somebody explained to them (with some basic data) what they are doing vs what the real world car would do.....

 

My first kart was a 250cc shifter and years later...after doing lots of track events, that handling is still the closest to some of the 'monsters' I've driven.
Some of you guys really need to go do a few laps in a good shifter. Spend the money and do it...you won't regret it.
I think it's an absolute must for all simracers before they can discuss this topic.
Your eyes pick up the visual cues rather quickly. You learn to 'read' the road surface...fast (shiny asphalt, wet concrete surface etc...).
It is however, your a** which tells you the fastest about grip levels and what's going on with that surface.
It's so far ahead, it's not even a race. In quick successive turns, you go from one turn correcting for drift into the next before you even get close.
Steering accounts for very, very little of it.
Race sims, lacking the ability to produce lateral G, rely on steering cues to try and simulate chassis upset.

 

I lol'd

Lack of feeling, you mean.

 

...And that is the reason that those so called "canned" effects, (that for some odd reason are the devils work, and most of the time actually just the regular effects amplified in the FFB so that you would feel at least something on your steering wheel) are necessary to give some idea whats going on with the rest of the car, especially when talking about modern roadcars.

No clue about pCars, but thank you for this always so scientific and enlightening insight.
"looool"

Anywhoo... in the spirit of "General discussion", I hardly would call personal preference a meter of realism, nor would I make realism the ultimate truth for sim racing.
Sim manufacturers are obviously calling their products "most realistic", "the real racing experience" or some other nonsense, when it should at its best say "as realistic as we can make" then if there is reasons or excuses why so, do share.

Every sim today has real racing drivers testing this and that, they love it and say crap like "its like being actually there in my real racing car" whatever!
It's quite easy to judge and base ones opinion on ones own OPINION, or throw in a statement cause you get money and a sponsor for it, its actually quite another to say something about sims, be right, and actually make people believe.

A little quote for the end here, and I'm sure that alot of folks have the initial thought of "Those people, loool... atleast I know what I'm talking about and I am right."

If you haven't already and want to read the whole interview, here's a link:
http://www.meanmachinesmag.co.uk/upload/media/scans/geoffcrammond.pdf

 

the G6?? what is that?

 

Howston/Lola G6.

 

ah, thank you. will do!

 

No probs, it's a great car to drive, especially the most obscene 580HP version

 

yeah and ofc that was the one i chose...holy ****

 

I am not talking about power exit oversteer, but rather braking, corner-entry, and even mid-corner. All sorts of slips, slides and general oversteer possible with 0% throttle, in a modern road-supercar (or any car for that matter).

Ok? No idea what you're trying to imply. I could be wrong, but I'd guess that the majority of my threads and posts are about helping people with things like gfx settings, PC hardware buying advice, benchmarks, etc.

 

Paul, I only have clubman kart experience. 100cc 1 gear. One thing I know, if I reacted to the wheel output, its already too late. I think that's the intent that's trying to be communicated.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

I am not saying that real road cars are easy, but you are getting "hung up" on too much Youtube. What I AM saying is, these videos do not represent the potential of a "fast lap". Just a smile on the passengers' faces.

In those videos, look at the drivers. They don't even have helmets on, and are laughing and smiling. Put a helmet on them, and the attitude will change. Their job, in these videos, is to give each passenger "the ride of their life". NOT the fastest lap possible. IMO, Kimi was INTENTIONALLY getting it sideways. He is putting his foot down more than is required to power out of the corner.

Just enjoy the game for what it is, and stop trying to analyze and process every piece of information. Because in the end, NONE of it carries over to real life.

My motorcycle "sim" does NOTHING for my bike trackdays.

 

Ain't that always the case XD

 

That's the point! Rf2 it's the only Sim which "tell" you really how much dangerous is the car you are driving...the team ISI has this sort of scentific approach, analytic, complex! cause cars are complex and Not Easy to push to the limit...!! You need a lot of experience to manage a beast like Kimi or Harris or Jason Plato.... they are monster professional drivers!!

Inviato dal mio SM-T705 utilizzando Tapatalk

 

I guess this review is rF2 then?

http://ravsim.com/2014/01/03/the-last-of-its-kind/