Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Miguel Cardoso, Oct 8, 2015.
Live Weather input from Austin! U guys want real rain? Come on in haha.
Race in 3 and a half hour
haha I set an OK time in the dry. In the wet - watch out!
To me it feels like your always driving on the exact same tire size no matter what you drive and the rears feel much wider and taller than the fronts. Almost like I'm driving on drag slicks with thin walls rear feels so loose then all of a sudden it grips on extreme. Which is how I figured out how to drive the cars in rfactor 2 without overheating the tires so so bad now. Old GTR 2 driving habits.
The effect your experiencing isn't that abnormal and can be produced in tire size between the front and rear. I have drag, track, and road tires for my car which isn't a $$$$ race car, but the motor, drivetrain, and suspension are nothing near stock. Its like night and day between all 3. My road tires are same size front and rear 245/45/17s trying to handle almost 600hp and 3,800lbs. Zero traction from 1st, 2nd, and part of 3rd, especially in cold temps. She handles as expected at race speeds and normal driving conditions on streets tires, unpredictable.
On my triple 8s they are wider in the rear 275s, about one inch wider than the front. More traction obviously, especially for the rear, much harder to side step, or even do a predictable drift, but its much easier to get the car to rotate with less steering and if you do step out, especially when I stiffen the front end. A simple lift and the car resets with ease, something I could not do on streets. With drag radials the effect is even more so being a 295 with there even sticker compund taller and wider than the fronts and being a radial just traction life is like 1000 miles and the suspension still in track configuration I get the most feel similar to Rfactor 2.
Just comparing my limited but real world experience and the comparison is pretty damn close in my opinion.
I think its a coin toss, you either get pretty graphic effects and no actual physical feel other than less grip or vice versa.
I think ISI will do a fine job when the time comes. I mean they've been hard at work so give them some cred. Look at all the content that's came out this summer, and DX12 isn't a cure all for it either. I'm still seeing some good looking DX9 games. I remember racing GTR 2 endurance races where we had 3 hour events and we used a weather mod to fix the changing weather issue it had, some of the best racing moments came from that sim including my first ever win in all the years I've sim raced. You just can't have endurance racing without weather, but it has to be done convincingly. GTR 2 didn't have the best weather graphic effects but when it started raining you knew you where in for some serious crap if you didn't come with a proper rain setup.
Graphics and physics don't need to be mutually exclusive
A little off topic but along the same vein, I'm just helping a friend with a mod and every time I load it up in devmode I get sad to see the animated Lollipop man waving me out of the pits... Come on ISI how hard can it be to make this a reality in the normal version. rF2 is leading the way in so many respects... but completely lacking in others.
Animated lollipop man? There is an animated pitcrew member both in devmode and standard that shows you the way when exiting pit box, has been since first build. There is also full pitcrew in devmode for certain cars but that's unanimated and looks silly.
The pitcrew is just a static crew. The lollipop man is a full on foot tapping nose scratching lollipop waving side stepping animation.
This is on the default devmode oval of course.
i had COTA raining with live weather feed for the whole weekend and guess how many logged in?
How many racers looked at their windscreen and raindrops while racing in the wet?
Wut racers do during wet races? Look for grip. not look at windscreen.
If the rain didn't look so bad maybe more would use it. No need to look at the windscreen, the rain is inside the car and that's tintops we are talking about. I agree with what you say, physics should always come first but rf2 is no longer in its infancy, its a mature product about to go to steam and its ultra critical user base. Scores will be marked down on things like rain effects, sounds, animated pits etc and there is no getting away from the fact.
Apparently ISI has set their priority somewhere else. I cant remember my guys wanna do wet races in PCARS coz it looks great including its cosmetics dynamics.
If i remember correctly ISI is working on tire physics on standing water/aquaplanning which is WAAAYYYYYY more impressive than dots of water on ur screen or cockspray like wut we can get from a arcade car game on ipads.
Where did they say that? Where I race sometimes people bring up night and rain racing but we can't ever do it because of the whole wet racing aspect plus actually having a car with properly made wet tires.
Some works towards wet racing can be seen in changelogs of recently updated cars or recently released builds. There were a few mentions about implementing water in real road. No details, though.
I don't do wet racing in rF2 for one reason - current visualization is very unclear and misleading. Personally, I don't care as much how different conditions are visualized for as long as they are visualized distinctly. In reality, I can instantly tell if surface is dry, wet or covered in water. In rF2 I simply can't make this distinction.
This is our first rF2 Asia Series in Sepang.
- Real track time
- Live Weather input
- Real Road
It was amazing. If you watch the transition of the whole thing since quali (It started raining at the start of the Quali - typical Sepang) and knowing its real Live weather being fed into the game is crazy.
From sun up to totally wet track and to almost dark and dry line (even visible at dusk)
Its the best 1 hour race in sim ive ever done. Running a race alone and put ur eyes into finding faults abt the sim is not productive. Get into a race and adapt and ull find its amazing.
Graphics, tire models bla2 is all just excuses. U can wait for them all to be implemented for you to race but ive seen guys been complaining abt everything since the beginning but just dont race.
I think this is the best vid to show how rF2 is well above any other sim out there.
Or the wet surface only drying with a racing line instead of evaporating or slowly running off the sides of the track due to camber
The water does evaporate.
Pooling and runoff due to slope... that's a much bigger hurdle.
Well I must try again because a few builds ago I tried running classic tracks with rain and once a current track, only the racing line was dry. It was set over a 2-hour period with the weather having early showers and then very sunny through the end (50% of it).
I was playing around with plugin weather and a medium-shiny track lost all its shine after around 10 mins in accelerated time, I couldn't say how long it would take to go from very wet to completely dry but it takes a while in real life
Drying time is dependent on RR-acceleration-setting.
Yep, I usually test on normal rate but must have been higher to see the shine disappear in 10 mins... just did some rate tests, 100% rain increased the wetness of the track at close to 100%/min (slows a bit as it approaches 100%), 1% rain increased it at about 2.5%/min, and when it stopped raining the wetness only dropped at around 0.175%/min. So full wet to full dry would take around 9.5 hours give or take (quite a lot of approximation in my figures). These values based on maximum path wetness, not sure exactly what minimum means as on my test track with full rain the maximum wetness reached 100% while the minimum only got to 33.3%
If those rates are anywhere near correct (I doubt temperature and wind make any difference, but for reference they were 27° and 4m/s) it makes steady wet weather a little trickier to set up, because even the lightest possible rain will build up to a lot of water if there aren't any cars on track (and even if there are, it won't help where cars don't normally go). At the same time 1 or 2% rain might not maintain much path wetness with a good size field on a small or medium track, so over time periodic rain will probably build up to pretty high levels off the racing line if there's enough to keep some moisture on it.
I know ISI are going to improve weather, though we're yet to see in what way, and I generally try not to criticise too much (sometimes struggle with that), but some rF2 features still seem to be in demo or proof of concept mode instead of actually being useful for simulating racing. Maybe expanding to steam will help tie up some loose ends we've been waiting nearly 4 years for. Or maybe I'm making false assumptions and got my figures completely wrong. I'd take either to be honest.
Yet again I find myself wondering why we don't have some stop-gap solutions so we can fake things while we wait for some brilliant new system (no sarcasm), but since 2012 I've been getting less and less surprised.
To swing back onto the original topic, the effects shown way back then might not have the flexibility needed to look 'right', and as Minibull said maybe it was difficult to set up, but 4 years of a slightly dodgy effect would have been better than none.
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