Rain Graphic effects

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Miguel Cardoso, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    2,480
    Likes Received:
    775
    Stop posting these BS please.

    There is nothing preventing gM2.5 to have some rain effect in there. It's just a matter of what we are doing NOW and what we are not, for the sake of priorities.
     
  2. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    4,245
    Likes Received:
    194
    Starting an entirely new graphics engine from scratch doesn't sound like your idea of fun, Tuttle? ;)

    Dumping a graphics engine because rain doesn't currently have eye candy is one of the ludicris things I've heard lately.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. simforlife2

    simforlife2 Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    3
    response in the face saying that soon update rain, spray or forgiveness is far , English
     
  4. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2015
    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    701
    Hi Tuttle,
    what means "Stop posting these BS please"?
    Sorry if I ask but I am not English and I have some difficulties with language. Also, sorry if my posts could sound aggressive, I didn't want to hurt no one. I respect your work and the ISI one, I was just curious to know what goes wrong on implementing rain. When I said to stop, rewind and restart I was talking about rain not ALL the game. Hope you understand now what I means in my posts, sorry again if I sounds harsh but I wanted to sounds more like "surprised" on them (I say it right?).
     
  5. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    287
    Where is gMotor 2.5-rain not working??
    Where is it working in gM2?? (besides RFM pluggie) :confused:
    That´s indeed BS....
     
  6. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,854
    Likes Received:
    2,234
    from the crowdfunding page:
    Extensive audio & physics developments;
     
  7. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    I love certain cars and a lot of the tracks. F-Classic and CART 1998 are all the cars you need in that game, then especially the historic tracks and latest modern ones, plus the super sharp steering wheel response. I do miss rF2 FFB in it.
     
  8. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    32
    I was doing high 1.48s and very low 1.49s at a "green" (RealRoad set to 0.2x and starting from green) historic Monza with the Eve F3 and no draft last night. I did so after my CSW V2 finally fully broke (been slowly breaking for the past couple months). Only the wheel inputs registered, there was no FFB, no resistance, nothing, it was like I was holding the wheel-rim in the air (not even internal resistance, absolutely nothing).

    I got pole, lead most laps, got the fastest lap of the race, and won the race (I think it was a 15 or 20 min race) amongst a group of quite fast and experienced drivers who are generally just as fast, or sometimes faster, than me.

    The point I'm making is that RF2s FFB is awesome in terms of the 'wow" factor - it's so alive and dynamic - but is extremely overrated (my opinion) with regards to the actual important cues which allow you to place and hold a vehicle/tyre on the limit. I lost almost nothing from disabling RF2s FFB in terms of "feeling-car/tyre-limit-FFB".

    Of course it was nowhere near as fun.

    I think, in some ways, RF2s FFB is like PCars/ACs graphics; it has the "wow" factor that grabs you and makes you fall in love but once you look past it, if you're able to, then you'll realize it's much more "wow" factor than anything actually meaningful.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2015
  9. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    All my time driving GPL and RBR I had no FFB. The visual cues, especially GPL, made up for it.
    rF2 FFB gives me the most sensation of the car I can get. I don't want it to be realistic-only because I can't get any FFB through my chair, so my wheel must convey more than just the wheel from the car. The only thing I struggle with rF2's FFB is the self-correcting/centering spring, which is missing for me. Some cars often lean into the corner, like there is too much grip pulling in.
     
  10. Bkim

    Bkim Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    6
    The moment i want to have blasting graphics with nice spray, i switch to Pcars. It only takes about ten minutes before i'm back at rF2 as there is no sim at the moment with such depth as rF2, certainly when it comes down to endurance races (very good AI, flag system, safety car, spotter function, pitstops, FFB and for me good graphics). My advice...keep doing what you do ISI. Thumbs UP
     
  11. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    32
    If you're talking about what I think you're talking about then that is a core physics issue. Cars want to keep arcing and turning in on some weird pivot/rotation thing as if there is no such thing as weight/mass and forward momentum in ISImotor. It's the reason why I can lap Adelaide, Bathurst, Imola, etc. without ever turning my steering wheel more than 30 degrees or so (even for Adelaide's final, super sharp hairpin). It's a core physics issue with ISImotor going on for almost 15 years now (you can see it happening in ISImotor versions even before rFactor 1 was released, let alone RF2).

    All you need to do is literally turn your wheel like 20 degrees and add a touch of brake (20% or so) and you can make any car do this massive, sharply arcing turn where the front-end wants to almost "magically" keep turning in and keep turning in more and more. You find yourself being able to go around any track without even turning your wheel more than "a few" degrees. You don't need to turn the tyres of the car to turn, you just rely on this super weird vehicle behavior characteristic of the ISImotor.

    Third party cars, ISI's newest Corvette C6R version, etc., it doesn't matter on the car. Imagine a Corvette C6R going around Long Beach without ever having to turn the steering wheel more than 20 or 30 degrees either way. I don't understand how ISI can have such obvious and "in your face wrong" physics issues continually going on for years among years in their ISI motor despite some heavy changes to the tyre model (most noteably in RF2). This tells me there's possibly something off outside the tyre model (maybe something to do with forward momentum of a mass?? Or something to do with a "piece" of a mass pivoting rather than the pivoting being based on the tyre/s / wheel/s sliding? I have no idea, I'm just throwing speculative ideas out there, I'm not an engineer/physicist).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2015
  12. Emery

    Emery Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,035
    Likes Received:
    1,654
    Spinelli, I suspect you're doing things with your throttle inputs to get the cars to pivot so nicely.
     
  13. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,092
    Likes Received:
    191
    https://drracing.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/how-close-is-close-enough/

    They probably forgot to check the correlation for steered angle. It was probably showing the problem you describe so they omitted it in order not to spoil the rest of the article...

    Mode irony off.

    You say you are no engineer or physicist but you perfectly know how the car should behave. What you claim to be wrong, is proven to be pretty accurate by those who probably are engineers or physicists and are working with professional racing teams.

    Enviado desde mi GT-I9505 mediante Tapatalk
     
  14. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    4,245
    Likes Received:
    194
    I'm gonna have to give this a +1.
     
  15. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    6,320
    Likes Received:
    43
    Tire modeling is surely among the most difficult thing (if not the hardest one) when dealing with driving simulation, not only because it directly affects vehicle performance and behavior but also because it is something that has to create the right feeling for the driver/user (or at least the closest possible resemblance to the real car/tire behavior).

    Tire modeling in rFactor is pretty complex, since rF tire model is pretty flexible and allows you to do many interesting things. Of course, it has also its drawbacks, it is at the end still a model and has some weaknesses that limits your action range, but still i think you can obtain very good correlation out of it.
     
  16. stonec

    stonec Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,399
    Likes Received:
    1,488
    Off topic, but I think this is related to inertia. Moment of inertia defines resistance of a body to rotate along its axis. Inertia is defined in HDV for each car for xyz axes (Roll,Pitch,Yaw). How the values are calculated is not straightforward, as it depends on the shape of the carbody. It's something I noticed with rF1 ISI cars as well, they felt very light as opposed to some of the best rF1 mods. IMO it's more likely that this value causes the behaviour, I find it unlikely there would be some global physics flaw.
     
  17. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    32
    Lol stop being so ignorant and in denial. Have some of you guys even played the game? Lol
    You're right, it's not a global physics issue/flaw. ISI are the first and only company in the history of humanity to make a physics engine where vehicle dynamics and kinematics are reproduced exactly like real-life situations.

    It's reproducible in many cars from mods to ISI cars.

    Not to mention cars which want to turn across the track sharply (as if you are massively turning in the car yourself with a super-amazing front-end rather than actually oversteering). Not to mention the fact that most slides still have this sudden end to them where the cars all of a sudden end their rotation and out of nowhere just digitally regrip and snap back to centre. Not to mention that you can hardly even hold a slide on a trajectory but rather it's almost always a quick correct and quick snap-back to centre correction or else the car will snap-overcorrect the other way if you try to control and dictate a slide like as in real life (seriously, go around a parking lot or skidpad with the skippy, or classic F3, or whatever, and play around with them, kick the back end out, modulate and play with the throttlw while holding but not ending the slide, it's extremely unrepresentative of reality).

    But ok, RF2 is perfect.

    Why do I even bother pointing out long-term fundamental ISIengine vehicle behaviour anomlies around here? I do it for the sake of improvement because the ISI engine is the most "raw" and dynamic and therefore, I guess, still my favorite but I just get die-hard, blind, cult-like fanboys attacking me when I try to actually point some things out for the sake of improvement.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2015
  18. matf1

    matf1 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    2
    Mate, I personally don't talk to you about this stuff because, I understand that:
    a) this is the best sim in the industry
    b) it is not finished
    c) if it is not accurate, and wildly so in your opinion then there is a reason for it. Not because they forgot or 'missed it'
    d) every thing you asked me to look for has been able to be circumvented with setup or style.
    e) it will never be perfect, so what we need to accept is that the best is simply the best until it's better.
    f) you have never been able to explain in words or visually exactly what it is you experience(we get's lot's of ballpark analysis), and for that I need a bit more room.

    I agree that front grip can suddenly overwhelm the slide and needs to be corrected as opposed to allowing it to return more naturally.
    This may be down to unsprung weight vs weight transitions which may not be final or it may be you set the car with too soft dampers and as the tyre loses its initial grip it goes slightly out of balance.
    It may also be due to atmospheric density which as you know will have knock on effects for all aero calculations.
    It may be a combination of incomplete features( I believe you when you said CPM has little to no bearing on it)

    It could also be that you are trying to catch the sim out, to prove it wrong.
    What I have accepted is simply ISI are closer than anyone to produce that perfect feeling, and I'm happy with that. Sure give me more, but for now, I'm satiated.
    If I choose not to be, then I'm in big trouble as I have to accept to myself that this is not close enough to reality as I can tolerate and abandon the genre all together because there are no alternatives.

    I don't believe anyone is a member of cult ISI. I do believe that any engineer, programer, analyst or other type of professional would be astounded at the complexity of what ISI have been able to achieve.

    One thing I do know for a fact. People that show the level of passion that you do are good modders. Why is it you don't make a car that works perfectly in all conditions?

    *hope you get the wheel sorted lickety split, I'm on fire the last few days ;)
     
  19. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ya, Mat, we all had some great fun the other night. I'll be back soon. I disagree with what you said in point D but I think the mood of the thread has left "rain talk" (mostly my fault) so come on Steam more (once I get my wheel back) so we can have these chats :).


    Back to rain...

    Is the bottom pic a different "method" for doing the rain? It looks weird, like parts of the windscreen are squared/tiled or something (look at the right edges) while the top pic looks really, really good. Maybe the bottom pic has lowered gfx settings?

    Particles
    How difficult is it to use a particle system rather than "fake" clouds/sections of animated white lines/dots? When I see PCars videos in slow motion, I can see these repeated pre-animations being played and it looks real cheap and simplistic. I'm guessing it will take massive processing power to use actual particles?


    P.S. Was the bottom pic taken while running in 3D? Everything has double vision...
     
  20. Nazirull Safry Paijo

    Nazirull Safry Paijo Registered

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,417
    Likes Received:
    35
    Since you boys want wet races, rF2 Asia server is open running Austin with Live Weather (we all know how COTA is doing there now).
    Walk the talk and do some laps!

    Hi guys. In conjunction of the COTA F1 race tmrw, lets do an off season race there tmrw. Race start 2 hours later than usual, as what most suggested in the poll. So this is going to be a test for that. Cya guys tmrw!

    [​IMG]

    Server name: !rF2 Asia Series
    Password :
    Track : RaceRfactor Austin v1.0
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_xd1VVjfGmEaklnRlk1NjFaRFU/view?usp=sharing

    Car : ISI Formula Renault 3.5

    Practice : 165 minutes
    Quali : 15 minutes
    Race Length : 60 minutes

    *For more details, please check the 'Race Setting' in the server.

    Liveracers link : http://rf2asia.liveracers.com/League
     

Share This Page