Race tracks

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by idead, Feb 18, 2018.

  1. idead

    idead Registered

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    Hi everyone, just joined the site after owning a game for couple of months.
    My main reason for joining is to try and say to Studio 397 that this game deserves much better race tracks, laser scanned race tracks that are also very single player friendly.

    I know this game relies heavily on user made content and there are so many amazing car mods for the game but one thing that i always find issues with is user made tracks in single player because many of them are not really single player friendly with average AIW files because most are made for online league racing and i think people forget there are many simulator lovers who enjoy single player for different reasons, mine being a full time job so i can only dedicate time for certain games online. I also noticed on many tracks AI is crap even after extensive AI learning. I dont mean AI making mistakes, thats normal but i mean issues like every AI always spinning in one same corner because of bad AIW.

    So my question is pretty much to Studio 397, why not put efforts into trying to license as many tracks as you can and laser scan them and develop them with good offline racing in mind. I would pay for good track packs dlc. This game really deserves best tracks you can possibly make. Having past and present F1 tracks laser scanned wold be so cool for example :D

    Just another little thing, in single player AI seem to always use the hard tire (at least in F1 mods, other open wheelers) even if you go into the mod tuning menu and limit tires to lets say ultra soft, super soft and soft. I also noticed after the race when watching a replay of AI pitting. When the car pitted and lifted of the ground tire changed from orange color (hard) to yellow stripe (soft) but as soon as the car touched the ground tire color changed back to orange color. is the issues with the game itself or something else.
     
  2. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    Agree on the need for more official track content. Even just finish off the official downloaded content to DX11 would be great.
    I know some are 3rd party but they come with the base install so why not!
     
  3. UsedMomo

    UsedMomo Registered

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    Of all the words that come to mind when I think of Tilkedromes, "cool" is not one of them. I also don't think anybody bought the Formula E dlc, so hopefully they've learned their lesson and will stick to real cars and circuits going forward.
     
  4. Depco

    Depco Registered

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    I don't recall S397 releasing the FE content sales figures, but I am guessing that more people bought the pack than you give credit for. I and a fair number of our league members purchased the content even though it is unlikely we will use it in any league race. I certainly am not a FE enthusiast, but I am a S397 supporter. My purchase of the pack was done as a way of supporting the Sim thathas given me so many hours of entertainment and an outlet for my sim racing desires.

    As to the OP comments on Laser scanned content. I agree more official content would be welcomed. But I am patient and will wait til they release the new UI and competition structure before beating the drum for more official content or track packs. But unlike the OP I am not a single player type racer.

    I do understand his concerns for the AIWs in the Non-official content as I have seen some goofy AI behaviors that would be infuriating if I were trying to engage in an offline championship or single player series. Hopefully this is something that S397 can help modders with in the future to improve their content.
     
  5. idead

    idead Registered

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    I bought Formula E dlc because i actually did find last season of Formula E rather entertaining in many ways and its close racing compared to last few years of F1 which is my fave Motorsport, maybe not so much since i started watching it again in 2015, had a pause from end of 2009 season to 2015, lost a bit of interest during 2010. Anyhow i find FE dlc very fun to play but what makes no sense to me, what happened to rest of the tracks. I mean you got the FE license and one track, that tells me other tracks are part of it.

    Formula E is a REAL car, real electric car and the tracks are real like any other street circuit but which had to be made to suit the current car and its capabilities. Guess unlike most petrol heads i would like to see what future brings in world of transportation, petrol as we know it will run out eventually and the less we have of it the more expensive it will get :)

    Formula E series is still very young and like everything else it will evolve, cars will get faster and store more energy for longer races, i bet in some years it will run on proper tracks with high speeds, like F1 speeds. Some electric cars already reach crazy speeds.

    Anyhow my original comment wasnt about that but totally different topic :)
     
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  6. Nimugp

    Nimugp Registered

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    Well, some tilkedromes are better than others (for some cars), but it usually isn't too much on tilke but the regulations. He also designed atlanta motorsports park that ISI released.

    Further, about you conclusion, I for one didn't buy the pack because not because of the track, but with it just being one track!!! I think the car only has one circuit in game that really suits what it is made for, and I'm not willing to pay for only that one combo. If they would have more suited tracks I would be more tempted to buy it, so for me personally your conclusion is wrong (don't know about others though ;) )
     
  7. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    The way to use RF2 by users "online" and "offline" is probably very different.

    For my part I use RF2 exclusively (no other "simulations") (and offline exclusively) in addition to my driving training that I practice in real life

    The goal is almost exclusively : train on a simulator/improve/maintain my level when I do not drive for several weeks.

    For this in addition to the overall realism of the simulation, which also matters a lot is the content.

    Regarding the tracks that will be made by S397 in the future, I wish :

    - Tracks with maximum turns/km (Monza-Le Mans are from my point of view very boring to drive. And do not speak about ovals......).
    - Tracks presenting a maximum of interesting situations of piloting (turns, unevenness, changes of adherence etc.).
    - Future real tracks = exclusively scanned laser, with a big serious to exploit the data (contrary to the graphic engine which is unacceptable that it is not optimized, a sacrifice of the performance CPU, if it is reasonable, is of my point of view desirable if the physics of the track can be more precise [same for the accuracy of the physics engine ...]).
    - Fictional tracks privileging exciting/challenging driving situations, privileging piloting situations that we encounter very little in all ~ 80 RF2 circuits.
    - Privilegiate in the future choices of tracks those which are ultra challenging and complementary with the existing contents (Example: Asphalt rally, circuits like Targa Florio, that can be many other things).
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  8. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    I've stated before, the challenge for S397 in content is providing top-tier licensed tracks primarily. Best case they are laser scanned. It cannot be left to modders to provide tracks; they do a good job for the wide variety of cars people like to drive, but tracks are the core of the sim and, realistically, aside from fantasy tracks most users will know about racing from getting excited about real-world challenges. So the question is, which tracks should S397 build?

    Interestingly, there were posts on the iRacing forum this week asking for statistics on track usage. iRacing have a number of free tracks which are used in Rookie and D (lowest class) series, and that list is Lime Rock, Laguna Seca, Okayama and Summit Point, and these garner most use overall. rF2 has some equivalents with Lime Rock, Mores, Atlanta, NOLA etc.

    The next set of tracks I can identify as 'general purpose' and used for many forms of racing. This list includes:

    Watkins Glen, Spa, Road America, Monza;
    Bathurst*, Interlagos*, Suzuka*, Silverstone**, Montreal*;
    Imola, Brands Hatch, Donington, Zolder, Zandvoort** and numerous others that fall into a secondary tier, most often supported by regional and not international racing. [iRacing lack some tracks like Barcelona also]

    I grouped these to show that we have some done as either free tracks** or 3PA* tracks, and some not covered at all. To my mind, picking off these core set of tracks in the first group that don't yet exist with official licensed versions should be a high priority for S397 to create themselves. This brings in the maximum number of new users. The others that are up there in popularity are those which are 'specialist tracks', mainly for endurance racing; Nordschliefe, Le Mans*, Road Atlanta, Sebring*, Daytona RC. The time and effort needed to create this set is in my opinion too much for S397 to take on; but I believe they need to support quality mod teams like Virtua_LM to generate these tracks. And of course, the oval tracks have already been created via a 3PA solution, and that can stay as-is because I wouldn't be prioritizing oval racing right now.

    Now, S397 have challenges with this because they are now committed to creating specialist tracks for FE. I say specialist because, they are not really usable for other forms of racing. This is probably 5-6 tracks. Hopefully they have a dedicated group doing those. We know they have licensed Portland; nice track, but probably not in the top tier of use kind of like NOLA is (and it lacks multiple layouts, that you'd get with say VIR). So my suggestion, is to create another team dedicated to production of those most popular tracks, at whatever rate they can pick them off at, laser scanned. I'm going to hazard a guess that there may be commercial scans they can buy for these types of tracks (like exists for Nords). Or maybe they can cross-license the 3D models for tracks by Reiza, Sector3, SMS??
     
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  9. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    Could you please list all these 80 rF2 circuits?
     
  10. Louis

    Louis Registered

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  11. enduser

    enduser Registered

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    All these tracks and a lot more are done either as free mods or 3pa (whats the difference in rf2?) but the whole thing is a bit of a mess with inconsistent graphics quality and fps. Some of them are even done twice so u go shopping - (beta) testing like spa, monza, montreal, fuji, suzuka and i mean for the same layouts, many of them are too bright and other look like (are) WIP compared to the best rf2 has to offer being free mods...

    Prime example is modern Spa non-existent in core installer!! (or steam workshop afaik) ...there s a great conversion by sj but in my system i cant play it with too low fps unlike the other tracks, same for brands hatch, too many objects i think and inconsistent with other tracks of high quality like Matsusaka, Algarve, Zandvoort, Mills etc. On the other hand there s also Spa 2013 from racefactor but looks rather poor , the curbs look approximated and not realistic, ofc i dont blame the modders i thank them from the content they offer (but i think u can tell where i m going with this), its s397 job to provide finished quality material even if its mainly 3pa developed and then licensed, optimized and finished by s397.

    Not "plug and play" as Wolfgang Reip says but s397 have announced mods support so lets hope for the best.

    Many tracks for me are washed out bright although the textures and overall work look high quality for rf2 standards, which i didnt buy for the polished graphics there re other titles for that, its not what i m saying just to be clear.

    So the content is there and then some but the quality u get is hit and miss atm, the game is overly depended on free mods i think (which is both good and bad i guess). I d like to see these mods gathered and nurtured under main developer's cozy wings! :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  12. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    The RR Spa 2013 is old. Our content has been private for a couple of years for different reasons. We have two public circuits, Monza and Montreal and both are in the workshop. I supose that this year we'll publish both with all the new features.
    rF2 is a modding platform, with a small number of users and i think that nowadays is impossible to have licensed F1 tracks in rF2.
     
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  13. enduser

    enduser Registered

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    I see , modding platform is the right term then. Me, unlike the post i quoted, i dont care about f1 licensed tracks as long as they re "Matsusaka" quality.
    In general about F1 cars or any other car liveries with sponsors on them, game is doing them a free promo/advertising isnt it, as long as the medium/platform is suitable which i think it is(!), i dont see where's the fuss but i m not a lawyer!

    Team/Driver names could be a place holder with the ability to rename them in-game.

    Or else regarding F1 rights they could choose another direction and also fill a gap in the market by focusing on older F1 seasons, or officially supporting existing mods like f1 75 or f1 88 with full seasons, year regulations, good ai like F2/ FR35, weather changes bla bla...
    ..
    Thats great news then, if by "both" you mean both private and non-private tracks (?) , because Monza and Montreal are already in steam workshop indeed and very nice to have! My preferred versions.

    Will you publish latest monaco pls?! :)
     
  14. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    I'm sorry but we're not going to make public this circuit. This is for private use of our members.

    The F1 subject is more complicated than it seems. The Formula One World Championship Limited (FOWC) has the righs of multiple things, such as:
    • Any audio-visual material related fith F1.
    • Expressions such as: F1 FORMULA 1, F1 and the FIA FORMULA 1 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, FORMULA ONE, FORMULA 1, F1, FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, GRAND PRIX (incredible, we can't say GRAND PRIX) and any permutations or equivalents in any language.
    • Formula One team elements (including Team logos/marks/imagery, driver names/imagery, car designs and liveries), Grand Prix names, Event names, circuits layouts.
    • Etc...
    They don't understand that our comunities are free advertising and we are not a threat. On the contrary, we are creating groups of F1 fans.

    In summary, it's more complicated than it seems.
     
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  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    It's about controlling their brand. Free exposure sounds good, but as soon as it becomes somehow affiliated with questionable groups it's a negative, and especially these days that can happen very quickly because of the internet. That's also ignoring the possibility that 'free' sponsored material ends up being utilised in a project that directly or indirectly profits from it, and then you're entering a whole new world of IP legalities. Or something (I'm no lawyer either :D)
     
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  16. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    If i remember correctly, these two are illegal conversions of laser scanned tracks from Assetto Corsa
     
  17. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    What is illegal in one country is legal in other. The problem is how to control the content on the Internet.
     
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  18. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    Personally, I consider that a LAYOUT, if it is different in term of the "layout" compared to the others, can be regarded as a real CIRCUIT (technically we can speak about circuit.

    I spent 10 minutes watching curiosity my circuits in the UI :

    I found........ more than 420 LAYOUTS ! At least 350 totally different from the others.

    The quantity of circuits is not a problem in RF2, just the quality for a number of them.

    I did not think I had as much tracks, incredible !!
     
  19. enduser

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    I wouldn't say "our group" is more questionable than others, its just about sale cuts innit? However sponsors are there in f1 for the exposure and games just offer the same really, i d say even more effectively than some seconds of tv time!
    So in theory u could have "X,Y,Z" brands paying for virtual add space within sim racing tracks! They get exposure , developers get extra money but unfortunately the numbers are not comparable (viewers vs players).

    I think its the fact that they already have sold a license to codemasters (and ea before that), which obviously gives exclusive rights for all f1 copyrighted content. Whats over the top is the amount of copyrighted things in the the f1 world as written above.. its ridiculous.

    Exclusive rights give a game a unique profile and a strong marketing point, f1 will sell their rights to someone who can afford to buy them plus being able to make a worthy profit like a big selling gaming brand, then also charge the consumer more so instead of 30 euros u pay 50-60 for that game. Also that game titles are still for sale going back to 2012 season (from memory) so rf2 at the time just before the release (or even now) couldnt have worked with more f1 content as it seems but i hope they promote older seasons.

    What i didnt know is that gp tracks are such big copyrighted brands apparently omg, rf2 cant even have the suzuka layout depicted wtf? I remember some adidas shoes back in the day with the suzuka track layout inside the sole, i didnt thought at the time adidas and then me was paying for that lol, extreme capitalism is extreme.
    What attracts people in every sport is certain top of their game sportsmen and teams, couldnt care less about fia logos.

    In practice eg. even AMS has a mega track mod pack including the usual/popular tracks and they re not a big dev studio either, from what i read they were a modding team for rF1. Anyway rf2 instead of brands hatch i enjoy most autodrome, awesome track.

    sry if im rambling
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  20. ADSTA

    ADSTA Registered

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    That reminded me of when, if I'm not mistaken, Pcars was in early development and the tracks had fictitious names.
    I lost interest way before the public release so I wonder if the tracks still have fictitious names?
     

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