Qustion on driving aids

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Moving Violation, Sep 9, 2021.

  1. Moving Violation

    Moving Violation Registered

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    I have read a million posts about whether one should or should not use driving assists. The ones I am interested in are traction, and ABS. For some, the use of assists almost becomes a moral issue ( you're cheating if you use assists} .

    I am an average driver at best. I adjust the levels of traction assist and abs depending on what car I'm driving. My experience tells me that I am definitely faster when using assists.
    My feeling is that assists make slower drivers faster but may slow highly skilled drivers. Some might argue that I will not improve if I keep using assists. I am not sure I am capable of driving like some of the really skilled drivers so that It would make sense to stop using assists. We all have a ceiling on what skill level we can attain and I think I am close to mine so I keep using assists.

    If your skill ceiling is to be average or below it seems to make sense to use assists where possible
    Comments ?
     
  2. FS7

    FS7 Registered

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    Use whatever makes the game more fun to you.

    However, trying to learn to drive without assists can help you get a better feel for the limits of the car. Also sometimes the difficulties people have to drive without assists are related to car setup. Adjusting brake bias, brake pressure, and suspension settings can make the car more stable under braking thus decreasing the need for ABS. Adjusting suspension & differential can improve traction on corner entry & exit thus decreasing the need to use TC.
     
  3. Moving Violation

    Moving Violation Registered

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    I take your point about driving a car without assists. Even if one chooses to use assists, It seems to be a good idea to see what the limits of the car are without assists. I have never tried to change my car setup because I don't know how to even start. If you or someone could direct me to a tutorial that would explain what these adjustments do and how to determine what values to use I think I would like to give that a try. I'm having fun but I would like to improve. I would like to get some clear explanation of all this. Some of the info I have seen simply say use these adjustments with no explanation of the why's
     
  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    You first need to get past this idea that an "average driver" should use assists.

    On an open server with assists disabled, you could see 30 drivers all lapping consistently and a laptime spread (from slowest to fastest) of 4s per lap on a 90s lap.

    Turn off all assists. Drive some laps. If you fall off, you went too fast. If you lose control under power, you were too aggressive (and probably turned your wheel too far after going too fast, but that's surprisingly hard to notice yourself).

    IMO you have to do this, otherwise there's no point playing a sim.

    When you can lap consistently without falling off, start with brake bias. Move it back. And again. And again. You'll find a limit. Then try moving it forward. And again. Etc.

    You have to learn what things do, and how they feel. Assists mask the feelings.

    You're robbing yourself of the experience if you use assists.
     
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  5. Sim_Player

    Sim_Player Registered

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    I seriously don't recommend any kind of assist. The point of simulation is to get authentic car driving experience and assist basically destroy this point because the computer is doing the driving for you.If you want to grow your skills then don't use assist.
    These assist are generally for people playing with keywords,gamepads etc.
     
  6. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Like alllllllll those SRO/IMSA/DTM/AUSSIE/GT3 cars? TC/ABS..... As far as the computer assists, I agree, but I try to match a series to it's rules. AJ Almindinger said one of the most difficult parts of transitioning from a DPI/LMP2 car to GT3/GTD car was learning to HAMMER the brakes to the fullest extent. He worked with the Acura NSX Drivers On the Michael Schank team to learn how forceful you must be to take full advantage of those brakes. If real world drivers have to learn and understand different styles of driving, so should we if we insist on hopping from car to car to car to car....
     
  7. redapg

    redapg Registered

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    From my Point of View, it's very simple: rFactor 2 is a Simulation of the real Cars.
    So if the real Car has ABS or TC, there is no Reason to not to use it in rFactor 2 too.
     
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  8. stonec

    stonec Member

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    I agree. it's not a "moral issue" to use ABS and TC on cars that allow them and have not got the "aid" word mentioned in the setup. In esports events like last year's Le Mans most professionals used at least ABS at low level from my understanding.

    I wouldn't enable ABS and TC by default on any car like a 70's Brabham though. There is also a thing called weight penalty, which rFactor 2 adds to assists if mod maker has included it. So on a car where ABS and TC are "aids", you may actually find yourself slower on straights if you turn those on, depending on the car.

    So yeah, I would toggle the aids always off with F7 and F8 etc. keys and use the setup option for ABS and TC when available.
     
  9. Moving Violation

    Moving Violation Registered

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    I have put in 400 hours into RF2 and another 500 hours in several other racing games so I have "been around the track" a few times. I can get around the track cleanly without assists for the most part but I lose a lot of speed. I have found some good info an setups that I think will help with lessening the need for ABS and TC. ABS has always been my biggest problem. Without any ABS I find it very difficult to determine when the wheels are getting close to locking up other than FFB getting loose. I think some adjustments to things like bias and brake pressure are going to help. Too early to tell right now. Traction has been less of a problem with over steer coming out of a slow sharp turn being the biggest problem. I may just be too aggressive on the throttle.

    I like RF2 and feel it is the best of the bunch at the moment. I am going to keep picking away at this and see what I can accomplish. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I progress. Thanks for all the input.
     
  10. TuningIn

    TuningIn Registered

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    Certain leagues and races (usually open wheel) don’t allow any assists. I started in open wheel so I had to learn not to use assists for that reason.

    For me learning to drive without TCS forced me to learn lines. Something that I aspired to get good at.

    Learning to drive without ABS was a much bigger struggle. I had a hard time with learning to brake hard but not lock up, so I added a rumble motor to let me know when I’ve locked the brakes. (In some way that is an assist I suppose.) But the benefit of using a rumble motor is that it taught me how to learn the limits of braking, which I probably wouldn’t have learned if I used braking assist.

    There is something very gratifying and rewarding about not having ABS and being able to brake at 100% without locking up.

    It’s all about your personal goals and what you enjoy about sim racing which will determine if you should or should not use assists.
     
  11. Sim_Player

    Sim_Player Registered

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    yes i personally like even tc and abs off on cars that have them IRL.
    Don't care about lap time or being competitive.I just want car doing only things i want...that includes making wrong inputs. I get joy by enhancing or brushing up my car control.
    P.S > DTM didn't use any assists btw.(atleast in recent years). today's dtm is just gt3.
     
  12. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I don't know about anyone else here, but I agree.

    In my opinion this thread isn't about setup assists (those that are included in a car), but instead the game assists. In other words, using assists in cars that don't provide them, and/or using higher levels than the car provides.
     
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  13. FS7

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    Setup guide matrix is a good guide to get started with car setups, very straight forward imo.
    Exact values vary depending on the car you're using, there are videos on Youtube with car setup guides for Project Cars 2 by Yorkie065 and car setup guides for Automobilista 2 by Steelcast27, although those are different games a lot of the ideas in those videos carry over to other games.
     

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  14. Moving Violation

    Moving Violation Registered

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    I have the Yorkie065 bookmarked and I will go take a look. Besides setup info I would like to find the specs for rf2 cars. The game has limited data but some key things are missing like whether a car is rwd or fwd.
     
  15. TuningIn

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    I’m with you. Rf2 provides such a rich drivers’ experience that winning and lap times became a secondary goal. I can feel that the car is at its limits and at that point precision, balance between throttle, brake and steering is crucial. For me assists, abs and tcs neuters that. If it weren’t for this sim, I’d probably be focused solely on winning and any setting allowed that gave me an advantage I would take.

    If there were a non trivial prize money at stake … honestly I’d use any assist allowed. But since the races are purely just for the experience of racing, I’d rather have a great experience even if I end up further back without the assists.
     
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  16. FS7

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    I agree with you, I can find out whether a car is rwd or fwd by driving a lap and looking at tyre temperatures, and sometimes you can find some info on the cars workshop page but ideally specs should be in the game in each car's showroom page.
     
  17. Sim_Player

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    Type the name of the car in goggle and more than enough information about car specs will come out.
    same goes for setup, just type in the thing that you want to learn about and sh*t ton of info will pop up...way more than anyone here can cover with a single or multiple post.
    Google got basic and even fairly advanced knowledge covered.
    search on youtube for visual demonstration and stuff.
     
  18. Moving Violation

    Moving Violation Registered

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    Well I've started to read up and look at setups. I am looking at the BMW class 1 setup and I am already getting confused. This car is I believe rwd. The default brake bias numbers are 49.7:50.3. Is the number on the left the front wheels ? If the left number is bias for the front wheels I would have expected a higher number.

    I then looked at the spring settings and those default numbers were front 1085lb/in - rear 548lb/in. Although this is a rwd car the engine in front means there is more weight in the front so the higher number means stiffer springs. Is this correct ?

    I'm sure I will have many other questions and will start another thread as needed.
     
  19. FS7

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    1) that is an odd default setting, generally the number on the left is for front wheels, setting to 55F/45R would be a good setting to start imo.
    2) higher number = stiffer springs. Since it's a rwd car setting the rear suspension with softer springs helps with traction coming out of corners.
     
  20. davehenrie

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    Wait til you start looking at the GT3s. Some have inverted shocks/dampers so down is up and up is down.
     

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