Quick impressions from a pro driver.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by caravan_driver, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. GrimDad

    GrimDad Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    323
    LOL That isn't Nicki Thiim
     
  2. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    1,426
    I just watched the video and I was quite disappointed about this guy's feedback.

    His conclusion regarding iracing being more fun is not the feedback you would expect from a driver judging how realistic a sim is.

    Regarding FFB he should know that the intensity of FFB is not leveled between different cars being one of the improvement requiring areas of rF2. There were huge differences between gt3 cars in the official pack.

    Sorry but very poor analysis IMO with absolute no figures to base judgement.
     
  3. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,722
    Likes Received:
    830
    i play iracing the last 2 months.
    iracing has done very good job with their
    gt3 cars (i dont mean the ferrari nerfing and the merchendes overpower) because BSS is the most popular iracing series.
    iracing gt3 is really enjoyable i have to admit with all my heart, so i m sure he expresses his true feelings.
    but thats all i understand from him.
    other than than that iracing has a lot of boring cars like skip barber-formula renault 2 and a few others that are uter garbage.
    for me for physics rf2 is much better and for online racing iracing rules.
     
  4. 3NPV5IRR

    3NPV5IRR Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2014
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    56
    In my opinion the review has some significant bias/distortion because of the following reasons.
    1. As was mentioned already the guy tried GT3 car without ABS and TC but got used to them as GT3 regulation prescribes.
    2. The track was completely green. After even little rubber on the track the car usually become much more stable on rear.
    3. He should've made some effort investigating how the sim operates. This would at least help to avoid the comments like "too strong FFB", "no progress time on monitor" and also bring some rubber on track before testing.
    4. As I understood he hadn't driven AMG SLS Mercedes in reality, so he compares one real car with another virtual. At the same time I do believe real team drivers from car developers were involved in testing and fine tuning.
    So I'm not saying that the review is useless or inadequate, but just would like to point out it should be assessed with caution.

    P.S. The guy told he personally would prefer iRacing or RRRE because of the community atmosphere. Sorry, how could he compare community atmosphere if he just tried RF2 first time after very long pause?!! This made me really suspicious if the review was neutral and not biased, sorry.
     
  5. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

    Joined:
    May 22, 2014
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    206
    The car he drove in game was AMG GT3, which is GT3 version of AMG GT or GTR), not AMG SLS, and that AMG GT3 car he has driven in reality.

    Wikipedia:"
    Since 2015, he is an official Mercedes-AMG test and development driver and has been instrumental in the development of the Mercedes-AMG GT3.

    In the 2016 season, Seyffarth started for the HARIBO Racing Team AMG in the VLN Langstreckenmeisterschaft and the 24 Hours Nürburgring"
     
    avenger82 likes this.
  6. Flaux

    Flaux Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,012
    Likes Received:
    422
    The funniest thing was when he said that he don't understand why the dev's programmed the car so oversteery. It has a front engine so it should be understeery.

    ...a few corners later the car understeers almost into the grass...

    That was the moment I stopped the video and did something worthwhile.
     
    MarcG and patchedupdemon like this.
  7. jayarrbee36

    jayarrbee36 Registered

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    658
    Likes Received:
    2,359
    No, it isn't. That's the point LokiD was making. :)

    Although personally I don't set much stall by any such comparisons. The real experience is just too different, and that's what racing drivers are used to. In sims you're not in the car, you're not moving, your sense of balance isn't in play, no seat-of-the-pants feel.

    Surely the best any sim developer can do is try to get the maths right. Good numbers, into a good model, should give good output.
     
  8. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

    Joined:
    May 22, 2014
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    206
    So there was 2 issues in the video driving vise. Too strong ffb and car being too oversteery.

    ffb issue is explained by too strong ffb setting and maybe too little damping if he was using dd wheel.

    Oversteeriness is probably because of not using traction control and abs in the game, even though the car has them in real life.
    Just tried the car with abs and traction control on, and those seem to remove almost all oversteeriness.
     
  9. caravan_driver

    caravan_driver Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    51
    I think thats another big point.
    RF2 doesnt have an option to set the driving aids to what setting the real car has like AC does. AFAIK.

    As other people stated, it appears to be impossible to review RF2 in its default settings.

    So in his overview AC got points for ease of use actually.
     
  10. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    12,346
    Likes Received:
    6,572
    The fact that people need to come in here and (correctly) defend rF2 against some of the comments, speaks of how obvious the various settings and potential issues AREN'T to someone not that into gaming already. (wow, sorry to non-English speakers... that sentence structure is a nightmare)

    I think most of us know what rF2's strengths are, and we're probably all in agreement. But no doubt as a user experience it's largely bewildering, and that does nothing but hurt its image.

    I'd be totally in favour of a default 'new player' mode that you can disable in options, and have that mode dumb things down so a newcomer knows what they're doing and can't stuff settings up they don't even understand yet (tooltips for nearly everything, popup suggestions when certain things are selected). But again only a new UI system can even allow that, and we know a UI is coming, so hopefully this does improve in time.
     
  11. bwana

    bwana Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,139
    Likes Received:
    1,040
    Similar to RF1 and it’s preset car settings
     
  12. Nibo

    Nibo Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,251
    Likes Received:
    965
    Its great that real GT3 driver makes that kind of videos. But, unfortunately, this one is a missed opportunity.

    It is a big mistake to judge a sim without tuning all settings first. We don`t know was he even aware that he is driving on a green track, with Hard (default) tires. What was his steering range setting, it may make the car super sensitive when setup wrong. Was TC/ABS On or Off? Maybe some other aids were ON? How he even managed to launch rF2 without any HUD info visible? I would argue if you drive GT3 car with Hard tires on a green track you should be very careful and you will loose the car pretty easily if you overstep. Its clear on that video, that he was not careful on braking, was braking late and lost the car because of that. His time of 2.10 on second flying lap is telling that his whole setup is not optimal. Something is preventing him from controlling and feeling the car, he at least should tune FOV, FFB, steering range and steering lock, brake balance, TC/ABS to his liking.

    For me GT3 Merc is almost the best car in rF2 right now. It is actually easy to drive without any aids. It can loose rear on hard braking without ABS, but if you blip the throttle and are gradual with brakes its easy to brake late into the corner. It does not look like he is using throttle to control the car on braking, so that`s the kind of thing I want to hear from real driver, how much, if any, throttle is used on braking in GT3 cars.

    What rF2 can do better is to make sure that first time (or lazy) player definitely sees conditions of track and car he drives. This info should be clearly visible before driver goes on track without requiring to press something or look for it.
     
    Ernie, Magus and MarcG like this.
  13. stonec

    stonec Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,399
    Likes Received:
    1,488
    Well this is also (partly) an rF2 problem. When you first time start driving a new car, the experience should be the one provided by the default rules, .i.e., TC/ABS level same as real life. Unfortunately this is not the case with rF2, which leaves a new user guessing what level of setting he is supposed to use with these cars. Same with green track, AFAIK it should have conditions that are representative of a real weekend loaded as default. He didn't change any setting, at least according to what he said, so the track shouldn't have been green. But yeah, I agree that it was a missed opportunity and I also agree that GT3 cars are very drivable (with the right settings).

    Edit: when you check at 2:40, you can see that the track was actually not green. It's just the rF2 realroad tech + YT compression that makes it look almost non-existent.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
    bwana and Ernie like this.
  14. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    1,216
    I've started playing Elite Dangerous, anyone try this.. This reminds me of rf2, where its left up to the user to find his way.. Im a noob to that genre of game its a frustrating ride so far lol
     
  15. Mister Bronze

    Mister Bronze Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    105
    I have Elite Dangerous. Haven't played for a few months (I started at the original Beta). That would need a volume of Encyclopaedia's. I intend to jump back in when the next update goes live. I still hang around the forum as there is always new stuff to learn.

    I think like Sims; Not something you can formulate an opinion on in half an hour with out of the box settings. Actually it would take longer than that to get out of the key bindings page :p
     
    David Kolody likes this.
  16. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    713
    IMO, if you are a full ten seconds off the pace per lap, you can't really make an informed assessment of a sim. He didn't even scratch the surface of what the physics engine can do, so I don't think his comments are very relevant.

    I'm not defending rF2 here, I'm just defending basic logic and reasoning. You can't spend a very small amount of time in a simulator and then make a solid assessment of it's physics. I guess as a 'first impression' test it would be ok, but if you are comparing it to RL (which the title suggests), then I think becoming more accustomed to the sim and giving the car a proper shake down (using proper racing lines etc) would be more appropriate.

    If he said 'I've spent 10 hours tweaking this thing to make it feel like my real car and it still over-steers too much', at least that would have some validity to it and be worth something. This video is just a surface look at something very complex, it's throwaway entertainment, sorry.
     
    avenger82, Ernie, bwana and 1 other person like this.
  17. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,882
    Likes Received:
    829
    Lot of guys are running 1-57-1.58 when the track is green, this guy runs first lap 2.11 and second lap 2.10 o_O
     
    bwana likes this.
  18. caravan_driver

    caravan_driver Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    51
    In defence of the youtuber driver even the title of this thread treats it as just a quick impressions video.

    And the default real road preset in Silverstone is light rubber I believe.
     
    mesfigas likes this.
  19. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    811
    Likes Received:
    342
    Or even better - tweak setup similar to his real GT3 car (at least simple things like ABS, TC, rear wing, brake bias, tires etc.) and then compare it.

    Nevertheless, with default settings shouldn't front-heavy car with a long wheelbase be less prone to oversteer?
    Also shouldn't disabling ABS lead to even more understeer instead of mitigating oversteer?

    My understanding was, that even in front engine cars this oversteer could still happen, because when you slam on the brakes, the rear tires unload and in consequence they lose traction first (because front wheels are at the same moment in high load, so they don't lock up as easy), leading to snap-oversteer.
    However, if race driver says he was surprised by this oversteer, then I'm not sure anymore.
     
  20. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    713
    I think you'll find that under normal driving conditions, i.e. steady state cornering, the car will be prone to understeer.

    He's getting oversteer on corner entry from not braking in a straight line and then locking up the rear tyres - of course that is going to cause oversteer.

    If he lowered the sensitivity of the brake pedal/adjusted brake pressure, and most importantly just got used to the feeling of the brake pedal, I think he'd find the car is pretty easy to control under brakes.
     
    avenger82 likes this.

Share This Page