Question about load cell brake pedals

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Marc Collins, Nov 18, 2015.

  1. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    They (can) require much more force than flimsy (small) spring-based pedals. Is it so much force that realistically you need to have the pedal set mounted in a rig? Can you actually use floor-mounted load cell brakes without the pedal set sliding across the (non-carpeted) floor?

    The CSP v3's look awfully nice, but I don't have a racing rig. Don't want to torture myself by getting them and not really being able to use them properly or to take full advantage of the point of the load cell (more realistic brake pressure application).

    Thanks in advance to those with experience who reply.
     
  2. aerobaticrug

    aerobaticrug Registered

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    My experience with loadcells - CSP V1 and Ricmotec on T500 pedals, you need to have them mounted.

    They are very hard to press all the way down to get full brakes, no way you could do it without having them mounted

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
     
  3. Helium

    Helium Registered

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    I'm using slightly modded CSP V2 and even on the highest sensitivity I think it is impossible to use them unmounted without pushing them around a lot. But you don't have to use a fancy rig. Mounting them onto a wooden board which you place in contact with a wall might very much be good enough. It makes them clunkier but those pedals are awesome.
     
  4. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    For GT cars, usually, the max brake pedal force is about 150lb. Corvette GT and NGTR GT are about ~ 150lb max brake pedals force.

    I have the HPP sim pedals (Hydro), with his latest (updated) pressure sensor peaked at 5000 psi, I measured the max brake pedals force is < 100 lb. I rated around 70~80lb at most.
    HE (loadcell) Pro pedals claimed at about max 120lb brake pedals force. So I will say HE pro more realistic in this regard. HE altimate version claimed can go up to 300lb max brake force. You do not want that one. It is for F1 cars. F1 brake pedal force is at max ~300lb. You do need F1 seating layout on your rig and very strong solid rig in order to push to that much foot force.

    If the CSP v3's can go 90 kg brake pedals force as claimed, then it is a great buy! Both HPP and HE pedals are way over price IMO. Up to 90kg brake force at $300? It will kill other sim pedals business for sure.

    Update: sorry I just checked the v3 spec, it states the loadcell at 90kg, the brake pedal has leverage on the rod so the pedal max force would be estimated < 0.5 x 90 ~ < 45 kg (100lb), which is close or better than my HPP brake pedal.
    http://www.fanatec.com/us-en/pedals/clubsport-pedals-v3-usa.html
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2015
  5. buddhatree

    buddhatree Registered

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    I'm using mine just laying on the carpet not mounted to anything. They don't move no matter how hard I press my foot.
     
  6. buddhatree

    buddhatree Registered

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    Mine are CSR Elite pedals.
     
  7. Rony1984

    Rony1984 Registered

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    Exactly what I did with my CSP V1 set. Works like a charm. I can't see it working without anchoring the pedals somehow, because like Paul said, they'll either slide away or tilt when the front side is pushed into a carpet, making me wonder how Buddha set them up.
     
  8. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Well, the great thing about load cell brake pedals is that you have a lot of flexibility over the desired input range via the load-cell sensitivity knob. You can set the sensitivity of the load cell so that only lightly pressing/touching on it will trigger 100% input (i.e. high sensitivity) or you can set it so that it feels like you're going to break the brake pedal and/or your chair/rig before you'll reach 100% input (i.e. low sensitivity) and that actually happened to me once with my CSL seat (though to be fair it was a not so greatly designed sim racing chair/rig anyway….its pedal holder design was clearly not made in mind for pedals with a load cell brake…fortunately fanatec were happy to replace the broken pedal holders under warranty and i quickly sold the seat on ebay after that. My following rig was much better but still lacking the rigidity i was after…in hindsight i should have ordered something else or made one myself like Smithaz advise me to before hand.)

    Generally, lower sensitivity is better because of the larger input range which lets you have finer control and precision over your inputs. However, this in turn is limited by how rigid your rig is. For instance, i was limited to (i think) around level 5 or 6 (on cswv2) before the amount of force it took to reach 100% brake input would also cause my chair and pedal set to flex considerably which would mess with how precise and consistent i could be with my brake inputs thus reducing brake performance and consistency. Therefore i couldn't decrease the sensitivity more than i would have liked to have even better control over my brake inputs. A better/stiffer rig is required for that.

    Now, if you don't even have a half decent fixed seat/chair to pedal relationship, then load cells probably won't benefit you over traditional position based brake pedals (if not in fact make you perform worse).

    Point is, yes they can be better but rig rigidity is an important factor for getting the most out of them. Just my 2 pennies worth.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2015
  9. nascar2112

    nascar2112 Registered

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    I use like 6 strips of velcro to keep my CSR elite pedals from moving on the carpet, lol :)
     
  10. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Thanks for all the great advice--and so quickly. Is there something about the CSR Elite's that make them less prone to sliding or moving?
     
  11. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    But i take it you've had to set the brake sensitivity lower than you'd maybe like, just so that you don't push/tilt your chair away/back when operating the brake pedal or (the worst) so that you don't have to pull on your steering wheel to keep your chair from moving/tilting backwards. I used my first load cell pedal (CSR-E pedals) with a swivel chair….i'd have to pull the wheel when operating the brake pedal so i would push myself away, lol. From time to time the g25 couldn't take the force of the pull and detach from the desk mid-race, lol. Highly infuriating, so i eventually bought a sim racing rig.

    Well, i had mine against a wall so my issue at the time was not that the pedals would slide away from me but that when operating the brake pedal it would cause me to slide/move away from it and my g25.

    You really need/want a rigid setup between the pedal and chair and some decent stiffness in the setup or else flex will mess with your ability to input accurately. If the flex is bad enough, might not even be worth using load cell.

    Now if you use higher sensitivity on CSP's, whilst that does decrease the input range so you won't need to excessive force to achieve 100% input, the brake will become harder to control accurately. It can feel twitchy. Add the fact that there is a good chunk of initial deadzone in the brake pedal before the minimum input is registered, something that becomes proportionately more problematic for your braking input accuracy when increasing the sensitivity of the load cell.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2015
  12. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    I have a corner desk unit that would actually make this pretty easy and much better bracing because it would be from two sides. Are there details of the mounting points? Absurdly, there is zero mention of these in the manual or quick guide (at the Fanatec site) for the v3's.

    And, for DrRipper's benefit, I do not use a standard office chair on wheels!! That would be impossible I think even for the CSW steering wheel!
     
  13. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    How about this?

    [​IMG]

    Firstly, made some edits to previous comment a moment ago. Secondly, the slight saving grace when i used it with my swivel chair was the fact i was on thickish carpet. :p Can't imagine it would have been remotely workable at all if it had been on wood flooring.
     
  14. Satangoss

    Satangoss Registered

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    Fanatec Clubsport V2 here, aside the fact the throttle sensor is incredibly faulty, there's almost no gain from the regular pedals.

    Yes, the load cell is more precise, but is far far far away to be a good cost / benefit ratio, even more if you consider the costs of this type of hardware.
     
  15. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    CSP V2 --> CSP V2 w/ Mugen spring & damper --> CSP V3 w/ Fanatec damper upgrade

    A load cell is a sensor that measures preasure so you can set it to be very light or very strong if you want.

    I'm not sure about a non-carpetted floor. I can't even use stock, cheap Logitech pedals on a non-carpeted floor. I do tend to sit lower in a more sports car slouched style so if you sit like you're driving a bus then you might be able to get away with brakes at it's lightest setting :D

    You'll need to mount them somehow if you want to press them hard.

    P.S. I know you didn't ask but don't expect any miracles in terms of driving performance i.e. laptimes.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2015
  16. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Too bad, I could probably use a miracle or two ;)

    I am not interested in a very heavy feel per se. Just thought the more realistic dynamics would be nice and the pedals overall seem good otherwise. I would likely use the lightest setting knowing me.

    I can easily mount them on a triangular board that would be braced on two sides. I have debated even mounting the existing Logi pedals that way, but they are OK with the rubber cupboard liner I have them sitting on top of.
     
  17. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Image is broken...now I am curious!
     
  18. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Still working for me and on my phone too.
     
  19. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    Does any one know how much cost the CSP V3 + their upgrade damping kit? their website did not mention that.
    I may consider this package. My HPP pedals brake just feel too stiff. I dont think realistic. I am not happy this over $1200 I paid for.
     
  20. Panigale

    Panigale Banned

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    Wow. I can't believe you have a set of HPPs and are thinking about CSPs! Send an email to Mark ask him if you can get some of the small black rubber bumpers. I included a pic of how I have mine setup. Bout perfect and very similar to feel and travel of a good 4/6 piston brembo setup on high end street legal sports car. I agree the dual red bumpers are very stiff, likely accurate for a real race car by my seat time (and what I'm trying to duplicate best I can at home) is in track prepped sports cars. Cheers.

    View attachment 18625
     

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