Question about AI aggression

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by RoboCAT10, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. RoboCAT10

    RoboCAT10 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    100
    From observing some posts about rf2 it seems that the best AI aggression level for open wheel cars is 25% or lower. If this is the case, in the rcd talent file, would it be best to make the open wheel drivers aggression level 25 or lower, or does that not matter?

    Reason I ask is that I am having trouble with the Formula ISI cars at the ISI Estoril track, in which the AI will be overly aggressive in to corners and thus will tangle with other opponents. I have tried lowering the aggression slider to 0% and even the the strength slider to 90%. Unfortunately this doesent seem to change anything.

    Currently, the drivers rcd aggression level is between 90 and 100, so could this perhaps be the reason of the chaos I am experiencing? With their rcd aggression so high make the in game aggression slider not that important?

    I will try change the levels myself on the rcd at a later date as I am unable to do so right now, but thought it would be nice if someone might have an answer for this and could save me the trouble?

    Thanks
     
    Jon likes this.
  2. Jon

    Jon Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    127
    I would like to know as well. At Spa '66 there are countless crashes on the first lap in the Brabham, with the Aggression slider to 0. I saw someone once highlighting a Corner Caution variable which was set to 50, although not sure where he found it. Hopefully some new AI controls will be added in with the new UI.
     
    RoboCAT10 likes this.
  3. ceecee

    ceecee Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    285
    We race on the dedi server with 15%, this seems to limit the AI getting into crashes.
     
  4. RoboCAT10

    RoboCAT10 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    100
    I run my aggression on 0% but still get crashes, it's a strange one. I might edit the rcd aggression values and see if that helps?
     
  5. Jon

    Jon Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    127
    Maybe setting it to 0 sets it to the default. Perhaps try setting Aggression to 1, I'll test it myself when I next get chance. I also noticed cars are needlessly aggressive when set to 0.
     
  6. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,602
    Likes Received:
    1,151
    I've been running the FR 3.5 with 24 ai
    Strength 108
    Aggression 84
    Limiter 34

    Out of say 5 races I've had one which had a turn one pile up,below 84 aggression I find the ai back off to much in the corner and get run over.

    I know all mods and cars are different when considering ai,so those settings may not help with the car your running.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  7. Jon

    Jon Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    127
    It could well be possible that the Aggression should be set to 100, lowering it would therefore increase aggression. Which could explain why setting it to 84 reduces the crashes. Another basis for this assumption is that the AI limiter, when reduced to 0, uses the default AI driver attributes (which I believe includes an individual aggression setting for each car/driver). Setting it to a higher value overrides this allowing for cars to race closer and consequently 'bunch up'. The same could apply to the Aggression setting. I'll test it when I'm next online.

    But I agree it definitely depends on the car/track you drive in. A crash in the Brabham at the historic spa is almost certainly going to end in a pile up as there's no run off area and the cars can't brake as efficiently, although I wouldn't change that the world :) it's the most exciting sim track I've raced on.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
    patchedupdemon likes this.
  8. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    287
    Its not like you think I would say: AILimiter is linked to speed-value in .rcd file.
    It "smoothes", or adapts this values to a certain percentage. But Speed-value is still taken into account and important. Just less important than with AILimiter=0
     
  9. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,602
    Likes Received:
    1,151
    Interesting,thanks for the info,I'm trying to learn all I can about the settings.

    My knowledge of ai setting is very limited,like bugger all really,I watched an empty box video where he states,strength is the speed,aggression is giving up the line/corner,and limiter evens out the delta between them.

    Is this roughly the case,or is there more to it,and a link which explains it
     
  10. Emery

    Emery Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,789
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    patchedupdemon and Jon like this.
  11. Jon

    Jon Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    127
    Thanks :) Looks interesting.

    One thing I was thinking was that I noticed that when aggression is set to 0 then cars go out of their way to avoid a collision. I've noticed this at the entrance of Eau Rouge, if I sometimes drive too close to another car then it will take excessively evasive action, which often results in it crashing into the hay stacks and subsequently causing a pile up. Perhaps having Aggression set too low, like at 0, will cause cars to always take such evasive action even if that means hitting a hay stack or colliding into a wall, and then rebounding back onto the track causing crashes with oncoming cars.

    That link Emery has posted certainly looks interesting, although you could test for the ideal AI aggression setting by starting from the back of the AI grid, and starting a race with aggression set to 85, then, 50, then 15, etc. The effects should be apparent from the first lap so shouldn't take long to test.
     
    patchedupdemon likes this.
  12. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,733
    Likes Received:
    2,095
    Nice assumption but incorrect, a lower percentage means a lower aggression, this is easily noticed in ISI/S397 mods by trying 0 then 100 and you'll see a vast difference :)
     
    Jon likes this.
  13. Jon

    Jon Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    127
    Yeah it was before reading the link you wrote in 2013, hopefully that'll clear up any doubts, although it will take a while to read it all :) Cheers for taking the time out to write it though.
     
  14. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,733
    Likes Received:
    2,095
    No worries :) there's a lot of info in there and most of it is still relevant today (think I stopped doing it in 2014 can't remember) with direct info from an ISI Dev at the time. It was a fun thing to do and showed how deep the AI code is and how many variables there are, over time the RF2 AI got good enough to work just great out of the box most of the time so it became a bit pointless to continue messing around with it, I started to actually enjoy the AI instead :D That said though adjusting any files can still improve the AI in certain situations or tracks, so if you have the time to mess with files then go for it.
     
    patchedupdemon, SPASKIS and Jon like this.
  15. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,602
    Likes Received:
    1,151
    Jon likes this.
  16. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,602
    Likes Received:
    1,151
    Haven't really read that thread but only had a quick look,thanks for putting all that work in,amazing job
     
    MarcG likes this.
  17. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    1,421
    Talking about AI.
    It seems work is being done around this area by rFpro. Certainly different objectives. If I am not wrong, AI aggression is set in negative numbers in this video. Enjoy it. I think it is wonderful.
     
    RoboCAT10, IgnacioK and Jon like this.
  18. RoboCAT10

    RoboCAT10 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    100
    Does anyone know if he aggression in the rcd folder is overly important. If the rcd aggression is too high, does it then not matter what you set the UI aggression slider at?
     
  19. RoboCAT10

    RoboCAT10 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    100
    So here is an update. I edited the rcd folder and changed each drivers aggression to around 18-22 (previously this was around 90-100). I then made the AI aggression in the in-game UI slider to 1%. I tested once again at Estoril and I found that the AI are racing much cleaner and smarter and seem to actually be thinking about their moves, which is fantastic, rather than before when they were dive bombing into tight twisty corners at such a track like Estoril. I only tested 10 laps, however this was all I got to before with many incidents.

    However I did come across two very strange incidents (the second one not that much) in which I didn't come across before. Previously my issues was with the AI getting tangled in the tight corners. I have some gifs below to show you what I mean.

    https://gyazo.com/2e03e52bab57f6ab9f4630d0533dcdbb + https://gyazo.com/c8a34fcb36e23b0fbdf37f397fbead68

    As you can the see riding on board, the AI will jolt to the right as if he is going in to the pit lane, only to instead drive into the wall putting him into multiple rolls. The second gif shows the incident from a bigger view. I have never came across the incident at Estoril, or any ISI made track for that matter. This only happened the once so I will give the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a rare freak accident. I also found it strange that the car vanished into the wall to only appear, like he was teleporting.

    https://gyazo.com/69769ae375e2f5ed1ce124e8daccbbf6

    This new gif shows the white car ahead spinning and then driving into the wall causing chaos to the others behind. Again I had never had this incident happen before, but spinning is normal and it only happened once. What I did find very strange was the car being sucked into the tarmac.

    I think the AI in rfactor 2 for the most part is fantastic, and there is no other sim racing game out there that is better, or at least what I know of. This is why I find it a shame when these weird incidents happen, especially at the officially made tracks and vehicles.

    I think changing the rcd values has fixed my original problem so I am happy, but I just hope I don't come across that pit lane issue any more! Fingers crossed the AI can last 70 laps with at most only a few normal looking incidents.
     
    SPASKIS and Jon like this.
  20. Jon

    Jon Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    127
    Thanks for that tip, I'll check out the rcd folder as well to see if I get the same result.
     
    RoboCAT10 likes this.

Share This Page